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In 2011, a $100,000 salary gave you a higher individual income than 93.4% of all working-age Americans [0]. Around that same time, the nationwide median salary

In 2011, a $100,000 salary gave you a higher individual income than 93.4% of all working-age Americans [0]. Around that same time, the nationwide median salary for a software developer was $93,350 [1]. Thus, today the majority of developers are easily within the top 7% of compensation in the United States. If that's the middle class, then what does that make the other 93%, who are worse off? [0]: http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/cpstables/032011/perinc/new01_001.htm http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/cpstables/032011/perinc/new01... [1]: http://www.bls.gov/ooh/computer-and-information-technology/software-developers.htm http://www.bls.gov/ooh/computer-and-information-technology/s...

chrisseaton 12y ago
I don't think class is defined solely in terms of income is it? Isn't class more about background, education, politics, lifestyle, tastes and culture? You can be poor but upper class, and you can be a millionaire but working class.
- Retric 12y ago
  In the US class is defined by either income or capital and nothing else.
- eli_gottlieb 12y ago
  Class is about whether or not you own all the tools necessary to produce a useful product and send it to market. If you own the means of production, you're a capitalist. If you must hire yourself out because you don't own the means of production, you're working-class.
  - TheSpiceIsLife 12y ago
    What's a "useful product"? Who owns the means of production? The CxOs? The board? The product design team? The shareholders? You can be low-income and still be a shareholder of a publicly listed company - the broker I use here in Australia has a minimum trade of AU$500 with AU$19.95 brokerage fee. What class do I fall in to if my income is below average yet I have significant stock holdings? Anyone with a computer, an Internet connection, and the gumption to do so, can send a product to market.
    - eli_gottlieb 12y ago
      >Who owns the means of production? The shareholders and board, primarily. >What class do I fall in to if my income is below average yet I have significant stock holdings? Well, you're implying that you have to work for a living or starve, so you're working-class. >Anyone with a computer, an Internet connection, and the gumption to do so, can send a product to market. And yet only roughly 0.1% of the population actually lives off anything other than wages.
warfangle 12y ago
That's the 2010 census; if you look at the 2013 American Community Survey's 1-year estimate, someone making $100,000 is suddenly only making more than 87.7% of earners - and is $40,000 more than median for someone with a graduate or professional degree [0]. If you look at households, that percentage is much lower - at $150,000 they're in the 90.1%; at $100,000 a household (aka an individual earner living alone or as the sole earner in a household) is in the 77.4% [1]. > If that's the middle class, then what does that make the other 93%, who are worse off? You've introduced a false dichotomy here. Just because an individual in the 93% (by your own figures) or a household in the 77.4% (by the ACS figures) is considered middle class doesn't mean that someone in the 57.5% (~$50,000) isn't also middle class. These things aren't linearly distributed. On the other hand, it's pretty evident that neither one is upper class. But that depends on the definition of upper class, no? What is your definition of upper class? Sheer income percentile, or what an individual can actually accomplish at a given income percentile? General usage has upper class being those who can afford not to work if they so choose; those who not only are rich themselves, but whose families have been rich for several generations. They send their children to private schools with a higher tuition than a State university; they probably own more than one home. I don't know any SWE that can claim that unless they were born to it or got in just after (or before) the first round of investment at a unicorn like Google or Instagram. "Upper middle class" is a pretty apt term, and usually reserved for those in professions like software development (surprise!), mechanical engineering, architecture, managerial, etc. Those under this label are usually comfortable, can easily afford to own their own home, and - in comparison to the creature comforts available - better off than royalty from two hundred years ago. But in comparison to the creature comforts of those just 1-2% above them, they're paupers. And those in the 95% are, to those in the top 1% (generally considered the cutoff for Upper Class), simply one head of chattel among the unwashed, hepatitis ridden, gout prone proletariat. 0. http://factfinder.census.gov/faces/tableservices/jsf/pages/productview.xhtml?pid=ACS_13_1YR_S2001&prodType=table http://factfinder.census.gov/faces/tableservices/jsf/pages/p... 1. http://factfinder.census.gov/faces/tableservices/jsf/pages/productview.xhtml?pid=ACS_13_1YR_S2001&prodType=table http://factfinder.census.gov/faces/tableservices/jsf/pages/p...

chrisseaton 12y ago

I don't think class is defined solely in terms of income is it? Isn't class more about background, education, politics, lifestyle, tastes and culture? You can be poor but upper class, and you can be a millionaire but working class.

Retric 12y ago
In the US class is defined by either income or capital and nothing else.
eli_gottlieb 12y ago
Class is about whether or not you own all the tools necessary to produce a useful product and send it to market. If you own the means of production, you're a capitalist. If you must hire yourself out because you don't own the means of production, you're working-class.
- TheSpiceIsLife 12y ago
  What's a "useful product"? Who owns the means of production? The CxOs? The board? The product design team? The shareholders? You can be low-income and still be a shareholder of a publicly listed company - the broker I use here in Australia has a minimum trade of AU$500 with AU$19.95 brokerage fee. What class do I fall in to if my income is below average yet I have significant stock holdings? Anyone with a computer, an Internet connection, and the gumption to do so, can send a product to market.
  - eli_gottlieb 12y ago
    >Who owns the means of production? The shareholders and board, primarily. >What class do I fall in to if my income is below average yet I have significant stock holdings? Well, you're implying that you have to work for a living or starve, so you're working-class. >Anyone with a computer, an Internet connection, and the gumption to do so, can send a product to market. And yet only roughly 0.1% of the population actually lives off anything other than wages.

warfangle 12y ago

That's the 2010 census; if you look at the 2013 American Community Survey's 1-year estimate, someone making $100,000 is suddenly only making more than 87.7% of earners - and is $40,000 more than median for someone with a graduate or professional degree [0]. If you look at households, that percentage is much lower - at $150,000 they're in the 90.1%; at $100,000 a household (aka an individual earner living alone or as the sole earner in a household) is in the 77.4% [1]. > If that's the middle class, then what does that make the other 93%, who are worse off? You've introduced a false dichotomy here. Just because an individual in the 93% (by your own figures) or a household in the 77.4% (by the ACS figures) is considered middle class doesn't mean that someone in the 57.5% (~$50,000) isn't also middle class. These things aren't linearly distributed. On the other hand, it's pretty evident that neither one is upper class. But that depends on the definition of upper class, no? What is your definition of upper class? Sheer income percentile, or what an individual can actually accomplish at a given income percentile? General usage has upper class being those who can afford not to work if they so choose; those who not only are rich themselves, but whose families have been rich for several generations. They send their children to private schools with a higher tuition than a State university; they probably own more than one home. I don't know any SWE that can claim that unless they were born to it or got in just after (or before) the first round of investment at a unicorn like Google or Instagram. "Upper middle class" is a pretty apt term, and usually reserved for those in professions like software development (surprise!), mechanical engineering, architecture, managerial, etc. Those under this label are usually comfortable, can easily afford to own their own home, and - in comparison to the creature comforts available - better off than royalty from two hundred years ago. But in comparison to the creature comforts of those just 1-2% above them, they're paupers. And those in the 95% are, to those in the top 1% (generally considered the cutoff for Upper Class), simply one head of chattel among the unwashed, hepatitis ridden, gout prone proletariat. 0. http://factfinder.census.gov/faces/tableservices/jsf/pages/productview.xhtml?pid=ACS_13_1YR_S2001&prodType=table http://factfinder.census.gov/faces/tableservices/jsf/pages/p... 1. http://factfinder.census.gov/faces/tableservices/jsf/pages/productview.xhtml?pid=ACS_13_1YR_S2001&prodType=table http://factfinder.census.gov/faces/tableservices/jsf/pages/p...