5 ms·

If you are describing various forms of debt bondage (as practiced in India and other such places), I agree, particularly when most debt bondage involves beating

If you are describing various forms of debt bondage (as practiced in India and other such places), I agree, particularly when most debt bondage involves beating those who try to quit. This problem more or less does not exist in the west, with rare exceptions like sex trafficking from eastern Europe (or from rural areas here in India). Most people using the term "wage slavery" are not restricting it to such situations - they are instead using it to describe people who might need to reduce their consumption to globally rich levels (e.g., $20k/year in the US) if they quit their job. In fact, I've never heard anyone use the term "wage slavery" to describe real labor abuses such as what you hint at.

chipsy 12y ago
Illegal immigrants in Western countries can easily be led into situations that may be described as "debt bondage" or "wage slavery." They do not have legal recourses, yet are afforded a place as a "hidden" workforce of temps, day laborers, migrant workers, and sweatshop employees, with the threat of deportation used to ensure dependence. Guest workers also tend to receive discriminatory treatment, even though they have a legal status. The Bracero program in the United States was critiqued along these lines, and the situation today has not improved in a real sense, as illegal immigrants continue to be used in similar ways for similar work. These situations share a common thread with the original article in that class is created through legal status, and subsequently magnified by abuses. Enslaved workers are blocked from using resources that could get them out of their situation.
- deleted 12y ago
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mzr 12y ago
There are examples in these comments. This quote is apt: “This is what happens when we don’t pay attention.”
- Retra 12y ago
  How much attention do you have to pay?
deleted 12y ago
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briantakita 12y ago
You seem to have a dualistic view on this. Your definition of "bad" is a salt field slave being beaten or debt bondage and "not bad" is anything "better" than that. It's a low bar to set. I agree, salt field slaves are worse off than McDonalds slaves; McDonalds slaves have the "freedom" to work for Burger King after all. There's also a slippery slope. In many 3rd world countries, people have the "freedom" to leave their farms to work in factories with poor conditions. I define the word "slave" as someone who has freedom taken away by another person or a system. Some people are in more slavery than others. The salt field workers have very little freedom. The McDonalds workers have a little more freedom, but you or I would not want to be one. I notice that you are a wealthy white male financial trader. It must be nice to be in a position where you have such freedom. Please have compassion for people with significantly less freedom than you, even if you don't see them as slaves. People are more than our abstractions. Many people work hard: You know where it ends Yo, it usually depends On where you start - Everlast http://genius.com/Everlast-what-its-like-lyrics/ http://genius.com/Everlast-what-its-like-lyrics/ --- There are also more unpaid slaves today than any other time in history. https://www.freetheslaves.net/page.aspx?pid=301 https://www.freetheslaves.net/page.aspx?pid=301
- yummyfajitas 12y ago
  I merely said that by using the word slave to describe voluntary employment, you desensitize people to it. Without reading the article, I cant tell if the article is about forced labor or just some activist whining about how bad their mcjob is. FYI I live in one of those third world countries. I still reserve the word slave for people who are not permitted to quit.
  - briantakita 12y ago
    > I merely said that by using the word slave to describe voluntary employment, you desensitize people to it. I feel the opposite. We can look at these horrible conditions and say, "thank goodness it doesn't happen here in America" and "at least we aren't that bad". Our sense of responsibility is wiped clean because "we are better than them". > FYI I live in one of those third world countries. I still reserve the word slave for people who are not permitted to quit. Treating slavery as a rare anomaly encourages abuses that aren't considered "slavery". We then complain that people are "whining"; they should be grateful because they aren't "slaves". Disrespecting the "complainers" results in the "complainers" becoming marginalized and censored. Some racial minorities have a long history of being marginalized and censored. Just because black people are no longer unpaid slaves does not wipe the slate clean and make everything ok. The dichotomy is even stronger in India, so maybe that desensitizes the nuances of income inequality in 1st world countries. However, I don't know of too many who would want to live in poverty working in a McJob. There's also a malaise of people who work in relatively high paying jobs they don't enjoy. This addiction to money & convenience motivates people to do strange things and to view others & the planet in an unhealthy way.

chipsy 12y ago

Illegal immigrants in Western countries can easily be led into situations that may be described as "debt bondage" or "wage slavery." They do not have legal recourses, yet are afforded a place as a "hidden" workforce of temps, day laborers, migrant workers, and sweatshop employees, with the threat of deportation used to ensure dependence. Guest workers also tend to receive discriminatory treatment, even though they have a legal status. The Bracero program in the United States was critiqued along these lines, and the situation today has not improved in a real sense, as illegal immigrants continue to be used in similar ways for similar work. These situations share a common thread with the original article in that class is created through legal status, and subsequently magnified by abuses. Enslaved workers are blocked from using resources that could get them out of their situation.

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]

mzr 12y ago

There are examples in these comments. This quote is apt: “This is what happens when we don’t pay attention.”

Retra 12y ago
How much attention do you have to pay?

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

briantakita 12y ago

You seem to have a dualistic view on this. Your definition of "bad" is a salt field slave being beaten or debt bondage and "not bad" is anything "better" than that. It's a low bar to set. I agree, salt field slaves are worse off than McDonalds slaves; McDonalds slaves have the "freedom" to work for Burger King after all. There's also a slippery slope. In many 3rd world countries, people have the "freedom" to leave their farms to work in factories with poor conditions. I define the word "slave" as someone who has freedom taken away by another person or a system. Some people are in more slavery than others. The salt field workers have very little freedom. The McDonalds workers have a little more freedom, but you or I would not want to be one. I notice that you are a wealthy white male financial trader. It must be nice to be in a position where you have such freedom. Please have compassion for people with significantly less freedom than you, even if you don't see them as slaves. People are more than our abstractions. Many people work hard: You know where it ends Yo, it usually depends On where you start - Everlast http://genius.com/Everlast-what-its-like-lyrics/ http://genius.com/Everlast-what-its-like-lyrics/ --- There are also more unpaid slaves today than any other time in history. https://www.freetheslaves.net/page.aspx?pid=301 https://www.freetheslaves.net/page.aspx?pid=301

yummyfajitas 12y ago
I merely said that by using the word slave to describe voluntary employment, you desensitize people to it. Without reading the article, I cant tell if the article is about forced labor or just some activist whining about how bad their mcjob is. FYI I live in one of those third world countries. I still reserve the word slave for people who are not permitted to quit.
- briantakita 12y ago
  > I merely said that by using the word slave to describe voluntary employment, you desensitize people to it. I feel the opposite. We can look at these horrible conditions and say, "thank goodness it doesn't happen here in America" and "at least we aren't that bad". Our sense of responsibility is wiped clean because "we are better than them". > FYI I live in one of those third world countries. I still reserve the word slave for people who are not permitted to quit. Treating slavery as a rare anomaly encourages abuses that aren't considered "slavery". We then complain that people are "whining"; they should be grateful because they aren't "slaves". Disrespecting the "complainers" results in the "complainers" becoming marginalized and censored. Some racial minorities have a long history of being marginalized and censored. Just because black people are no longer unpaid slaves does not wipe the slate clean and make everything ok. The dichotomy is even stronger in India, so maybe that desensitizes the nuances of income inequality in 1st world countries. However, I don't know of too many who would want to live in poverty working in a McJob. There's also a malaise of people who work in relatively high paying jobs they don't enjoy. This addiction to money & convenience motivates people to do strange things and to view others & the planet in an unhealthy way.