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It's a pity your thoughtful comment is losing visibility as the submitted story has been flagged off the front page.

pen2l 12y ago
Sadly, it hasn't truly been "flagged off", it was done by the volition (or rather, the acquiescence of HN mods). This has happened for almost every immigration-related submission critical of pg's point-of-view. When you call them out for this, they go back to the excuse "the users voted it off!" But that's not really a good response, since they do routinely take the initiative of bringing to life stories that were voted off. I know things get politically dirty on these kinds of submissions, but the conversation needs to happen -- pg can't just open the lid to say what he wants, and immediately close it. This is our bread and butter on the line, why shouldn't we be able to have this conversation without the submissions constantly getting killed.
- tptacek 12y ago
  That's a rather inflammatory claim to make without a lick of evidence, and attributes a whole lot of agency in story selection to a person who appears to have no current involvement with HN whatsoever. It's also a drive-by from an anonymous throwaway account.
  - pen2l 12y ago
    I would back up my claims with evidence other than my stated observations if HN software wasn't so opaque. And anyway, the burden of proof falls upon the party with the pertinent pattern of the acts which they are being accused of. HN often slowbans folks who don't toe the line (michaelochurch, larrys, rayiner (rayiner was rankbanned precisely because of disagreeing with pg on the immigration issue), etc., as well as manipulates ranking of comments to put YC-funded startups in a positive light. Considering all of this, I'm fine making the accusation, YC-staff has to defend this with solid evidence. Anyway, to be clear, I'm not accusing pg, or really anyone particular of doing anything -- I'm saying HN mods (whoever they may be) are behind this story falling off from #1 to not being on the frontpage in a matter of a minute.
- jessaustin 12y ago
  ...it hasn't truly been "flagged off"... To be precise, this thread now has about 80 comments and about 70 upvotes. In the past, at least, HN's software has considered that a "flamewar". Perhaps it's too bad, in this case, since TFA is so much more cogent and reasonable than PG's original self-serving bullshit, but unless you credibly suggest that someone is either inflating comment numbers or deflating upvotes, it is exaggeration to say this has been "killed".
  - pen2l 12y ago
    I agree with you, I probably should have been more careful in my word. I should clarify that when I mean "killed", I mean killing either by manually killing, or letting it remain killed. Considering they often exercise their ability to bring around killed stories, they should have brought this one back too.
- wglb 12y ago
  Often, stories get flagged of by users due to toxic comments that the story attracted. This is one of them. And consider the possibility that your comment is in the "not intellectually stimulating" category.

pen2l 12y ago

Sadly, it hasn't truly been "flagged off", it was done by the volition (or rather, the acquiescence of HN mods). This has happened for almost every immigration-related submission critical of pg's point-of-view. When you call them out for this, they go back to the excuse "the users voted it off!" But that's not really a good response, since they do routinely take the initiative of bringing to life stories that were voted off. I know things get politically dirty on these kinds of submissions, but the conversation needs to happen -- pg can't just open the lid to say what he wants, and immediately close it. This is our bread and butter on the line, why shouldn't we be able to have this conversation without the submissions constantly getting killed.

tptacek 12y ago
That's a rather inflammatory claim to make without a lick of evidence, and attributes a whole lot of agency in story selection to a person who appears to have no current involvement with HN whatsoever. It's also a drive-by from an anonymous throwaway account.
- pen2l 12y ago
  I would back up my claims with evidence other than my stated observations if HN software wasn't so opaque. And anyway, the burden of proof falls upon the party with the pertinent pattern of the acts which they are being accused of. HN often slowbans folks who don't toe the line (michaelochurch, larrys, rayiner (rayiner was rankbanned precisely because of disagreeing with pg on the immigration issue), etc., as well as manipulates ranking of comments to put YC-funded startups in a positive light. Considering all of this, I'm fine making the accusation, YC-staff has to defend this with solid evidence. Anyway, to be clear, I'm not accusing pg, or really anyone particular of doing anything -- I'm saying HN mods (whoever they may be) are behind this story falling off from #1 to not being on the frontpage in a matter of a minute.
jessaustin 12y ago
...it hasn't truly been "flagged off"... To be precise, this thread now has about 80 comments and about 70 upvotes. In the past, at least, HN's software has considered that a "flamewar". Perhaps it's too bad, in this case, since TFA is so much more cogent and reasonable than PG's original self-serving bullshit, but unless you credibly suggest that someone is either inflating comment numbers or deflating upvotes, it is exaggeration to say this has been "killed".
- pen2l 12y ago
  I agree with you, I probably should have been more careful in my word. I should clarify that when I mean "killed", I mean killing either by manually killing, or letting it remain killed. Considering they often exercise their ability to bring around killed stories, they should have brought this one back too.
wglb 12y ago
Often, stories get flagged of by users due to toxic comments that the story attracted. This is one of them. And consider the possibility that your comment is in the "not intellectually stimulating" category.