4 ms·

Does anyone have idea if the idiocy of integrating the IE browser so deep inside the os is finally solved, that version updates are possible? And will spartan b

Does anyone have idea if the idiocy of integrating the IE browser so deep inside the os is finally solved, that version updates are possible? And will spartan be stand alone binary, like IE should have been at launch?

lostlogin 12y ago
I don't have a good understanding of the history of IE but thought it was embedded as a way of breaking Netscape - if that was ever true the time has obviously passed for it to remain deeply embedded. However if this was the reason, isn't that a good argument for the way MS constructed IE (which isn't to say I agree with the strategy)?
- berkut 12y ago
  "Breaking" Netscape? A stand-alone application? Really? Anticompetitive maybe, but Microsoft embedding IE into Windows didn't break Netscape or other browsers in any functional way from my recollection (and I was using NN 2/3/4, Opera, IE 3/4/5/6 on 28.8 and 56k modems at the time).
- kalleboo 12y ago
  IE was deeply embedded because it was created in the bubble of "web all the things!" so they went so far as using IE the renderer for the desktop wallpapers and the file browser (IIRC you could even set a custom index.html for a folder on your harddisk)
- venomsnake 12y ago
  It was the fact that it came with windows and free that broke netscape. That the rendering engine is so embedded in the OS that the question is "will we be able to bring IE X to platform windows Y at all" is just stupid.
  - DanBC 12y ago
    MS prevented vendors from bundling Netscape in Windows. MS used the fact that IE was tied so deeply into the OS as a reason for not being able to unbundle it. MS used APIs to favour IE over other software - MS made their OS work better with their browser than with other competitor browsers.
- contextfree 12y ago
  The root of it was that Microsoft thought of the web browser as a kind of competing alternate OS-on-top-of-the-OS (which, in many ways, it is - the OS and browser each feature their own arguably duplicative/redundant UI frameworks, launching/switching mechanisms, etc). They didn't think this situation could last - either the browser would be subsumed into the OS, or the OS would be subsumed into the browser, or they would merge somehow. This belief was shared by others at the time (e.g. Marc Andreessen's famous declaration that the web would reduce Windows to "a poorly debugged set of device drivers"). So everything they were trying to do with IE and Windows was based on the intention that the distinction between them would gradually disappear.
pjc50 12y ago
IE is to Windows as Webkit is to iOS; it's componentised HTML rendering. The whole browser choice lawsuit business was strange; it was far from the worst bit of anti-competitive behaviour, and has been superceded by closed platforms on phones. The "halloween" documents and funding of SCO were more objectionable to me.
- scholia 12y ago
  There was a backstory. Janet Reno's DoJ forced Microsoft to sign a consent decree that forbade them from tieing products to Windows but allowed them to add functionality to Windows. Therefore, IE had to be a feature of Windows not a separate bundled product. Otherwise, in the eventual anti-trust trial, Microsoft won the browser case 2-1 on appeal.

lostlogin 12y ago

I don't have a good understanding of the history of IE but thought it was embedded as a way of breaking Netscape - if that was ever true the time has obviously passed for it to remain deeply embedded. However if this was the reason, isn't that a good argument for the way MS constructed IE (which isn't to say I agree with the strategy)?

berkut 12y ago
"Breaking" Netscape? A stand-alone application? Really? Anticompetitive maybe, but Microsoft embedding IE into Windows didn't break Netscape or other browsers in any functional way from my recollection (and I was using NN 2/3/4, Opera, IE 3/4/5/6 on 28.8 and 56k modems at the time).
kalleboo 12y ago
IE was deeply embedded because it was created in the bubble of "web all the things!" so they went so far as using IE the renderer for the desktop wallpapers and the file browser (IIRC you could even set a custom index.html for a folder on your harddisk)
venomsnake 12y ago
It was the fact that it came with windows and free that broke netscape. That the rendering engine is so embedded in the OS that the question is "will we be able to bring IE X to platform windows Y at all" is just stupid.
- DanBC 12y ago
  MS prevented vendors from bundling Netscape in Windows. MS used the fact that IE was tied so deeply into the OS as a reason for not being able to unbundle it. MS used APIs to favour IE over other software - MS made their OS work better with their browser than with other competitor browsers.
contextfree 12y ago
The root of it was that Microsoft thought of the web browser as a kind of competing alternate OS-on-top-of-the-OS (which, in many ways, it is - the OS and browser each feature their own arguably duplicative/redundant UI frameworks, launching/switching mechanisms, etc). They didn't think this situation could last - either the browser would be subsumed into the OS, or the OS would be subsumed into the browser, or they would merge somehow. This belief was shared by others at the time (e.g. Marc Andreessen's famous declaration that the web would reduce Windows to "a poorly debugged set of device drivers"). So everything they were trying to do with IE and Windows was based on the intention that the distinction between them would gradually disappear.

pjc50 12y ago

IE is to Windows as Webkit is to iOS; it's componentised HTML rendering. The whole browser choice lawsuit business was strange; it was far from the worst bit of anti-competitive behaviour, and has been superceded by closed platforms on phones. The "halloween" documents and funding of SCO were more objectionable to me.

scholia 12y ago
There was a backstory. Janet Reno's DoJ forced Microsoft to sign a consent decree that forbade them from tieing products to Windows but allowed them to add functionality to Windows. Therefore, IE had to be a feature of Windows not a separate bundled product. Otherwise, in the eventual anti-trust trial, Microsoft won the browser case 2-1 on appeal.