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I am absolutely amazed at how much the debate centers around the content of what is taught with Common Core. There was an article a few days ago on HN about th

I am absolutely amazed at how much the debate centers around the content of what is taught with Common Core. There was an article a few days ago on HN about the mathematician who came up with the design for the math portion of Common Core. I think these people are completely missing the point. The focus should be on how to teach, not necessarily on what is being taught. My sister is a teacher. She has taught at some of the worst schools in the state (1,000/1,100) and is just now beginning at one of the best schools. The problem isn't the math itself; it is how the math is taught. For some reason everyone in society feels compelled to voice their opinion on how things should be done in education. This is absurd. Would the average person dare tell a nuclear engineer how he should be designing his reactor? Would they pretend to argue about the airflow over an aircraft wing? Would they tell me I'm using the wrong Hamiltonian in my QM simulations? No, of course not. They have absolutely no expertise and no experience in the field. Similarly, the vast majority of everyone has no experience whatsoever teaching thousands of very different students from different backgrounds with very different learning styles and needs. So why then does everyone feel like they have the capacity to decide what the best education system is? Most people recall going to school themselves when they were younger, and they know what learning strategy worked best for them, and then they project this learning style onto everyone else. That's not going to work. Does that mathematician who helped designed the Common Core standards have any experience working with a class where 97% of the students are on free lunches and their parents are in jail and addicted to cocaine? Of course not; his daughter goes to an upper-class school. Her situation is completely different.

analog31 12y ago
In my view, there are no "nuclear engineers" in education, i.e., no person who can tell you exactly how to design a system or solve a problem with practically total command of the inputs and a good assurance that it will be successful. There is no Hamiltonian. I'm not sure that there is any such thing as a reliable body of expertise in education, that is preferable to a democratic process. Anecdote: My friend is a high school math teacher. We both have kids of similar ages, going through the same schools. When the kids were toddlers, he voiced the same opinion about letting the professionals do their job. Today, with his kids in middle school, he is no longer of that opinion.
tokenadult 12y ago
I can't speak for why anyone else would disagree, but there are plenty of people who are competent to disagree with how mathematics is taught in elementary schools in the United States whether or not they have personally taught in them. Let parents have power to shop for teachers who really meet their own children's needs, and much of the complaining will stop--but people will be seeking out the teachers who can really deliver results. An article link I was just posting in an edit in my comment in this thread[1] relates just how hard it is now to find elementary school teachers in the United States who can even give a general description of how to find the area of a rectangle knowing the lengths of the rectangle's sides. That's bad. [1] http://www.ams.org/notices/200502/fea-kenschaft.pdf http://www.ams.org/notices/200502/fea-kenschaft.pdf
onedev 12y ago
I think this guy is pretty qualified to talk about education: http://www.wesjones.com/gatto1.htm http://www.wesjones.com/gatto1.htm
rdtsc 12y ago
> Would the average person dare tell a nuclear engineer how he should be designing his reactor? If the average person were ocasionally or maybe even throughout their life engaged in designing and building reactors, even just once, yes they would. Let's say an engineer build one nuclear reactor during their lifetime. Would you give their opinion any weight in nuclear reactor design? Well you should. Especially if the reactor is still standing safely and producing electricity (or you know, loads of Plutonium) [extrapolate to -- they are gainfully employeed in a profession, not starving, or sleeping on the streets]. Unlike nuclear reactor or QM circuits building every adult is at some point engaged in learning. Both as the one being taught (child, student) and the one doing the teaching (parent, mentor, tutor). > Does that mathematician who helped designed the Common Core standards have any experience working with a class where 97% of the students are on free lunches and their parents are in jail and addicted to cocaine? Of course not Agreed. But then you take their datapoint as a singular data point, and with a grain of salt that they came from a family of college professors, etc etc. Instead of drug dealers. Moreover, what the mathematician designing the Common Core should have done was to look at what are some of the components in a country with better scores and a more successful school system. I think we talked about about the school system in Finland here (or was Reddit, can't remember anymore). The key was that it wasn't just "better teacher" or "better worksheets" but a better environment. Like you said, not being afraid of going home and getting beaten by a drunk parent or worrying about not having a dinner that night. No ammount of fancy new Worksheet and "shotcuts" will help that child.

analog31 12y ago

In my view, there are no "nuclear engineers" in education, i.e., no person who can tell you exactly how to design a system or solve a problem with practically total command of the inputs and a good assurance that it will be successful. There is no Hamiltonian. I'm not sure that there is any such thing as a reliable body of expertise in education, that is preferable to a democratic process. Anecdote: My friend is a high school math teacher. We both have kids of similar ages, going through the same schools. When the kids were toddlers, he voiced the same opinion about letting the professionals do their job. Today, with his kids in middle school, he is no longer of that opinion.

tokenadult 12y ago

I can't speak for why anyone else would disagree, but there are plenty of people who are competent to disagree with how mathematics is taught in elementary schools in the United States whether or not they have personally taught in them. Let parents have power to shop for teachers who really meet their own children's needs, and much of the complaining will stop--but people will be seeking out the teachers who can really deliver results. An article link I was just posting in an edit in my comment in this thread[1] relates just how hard it is now to find elementary school teachers in the United States who can even give a general description of how to find the area of a rectangle knowing the lengths of the rectangle's sides. That's bad. [1] http://www.ams.org/notices/200502/fea-kenschaft.pdf http://www.ams.org/notices/200502/fea-kenschaft.pdf

onedev 12y ago

I think this guy is pretty qualified to talk about education: http://www.wesjones.com/gatto1.htm http://www.wesjones.com/gatto1.htm

rdtsc 12y ago

> Would the average person dare tell a nuclear engineer how he should be designing his reactor? If the average person were ocasionally or maybe even throughout their life engaged in designing and building reactors, even just once, yes they would. Let's say an engineer build one nuclear reactor during their lifetime. Would you give their opinion any weight in nuclear reactor design? Well you should. Especially if the reactor is still standing safely and producing electricity (or you know, loads of Plutonium) [extrapolate to -- they are gainfully employeed in a profession, not starving, or sleeping on the streets]. Unlike nuclear reactor or QM circuits building every adult is at some point engaged in learning. Both as the one being taught (child, student) and the one doing the teaching (parent, mentor, tutor). > Does that mathematician who helped designed the Common Core standards have any experience working with a class where 97% of the students are on free lunches and their parents are in jail and addicted to cocaine? Of course not Agreed. But then you take their datapoint as a singular data point, and with a grain of salt that they came from a family of college professors, etc etc. Instead of drug dealers. Moreover, what the mathematician designing the Common Core should have done was to look at what are some of the components in a country with better scores and a more successful school system. I think we talked about about the school system in Finland here (or was Reddit, can't remember anymore). The key was that it wasn't just "better teacher" or "better worksheets" but a better environment. Like you said, not being afraid of going home and getting beaten by a drunk parent or worrying about not having a dinner that night. No ammount of fancy new Worksheet and "shotcuts" will help that child.