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"God of the gaps" is one big straw man argument. Lots of religious philosophies don't even have a place for God directly acting in the world. Evolution is agai

"God of the gaps" is one big straw man argument. Lots of religious philosophies don't even have a place for God directly acting in the world. Evolution is again a straw man argument. Lots of religions accept it. Ever hear of Gödel's rigorous ontological argument? http://mally.stanford.edu/Papers/ontological-computational.pdf http://mally.stanford.edu/Papers/ontological-computational.p... Science is the not end of it all. Science rests on logic and rational thought. What would be the scientific experiment for validating the scientific method? My point is that arguing against simple-minded religious folks is easy. But nobody has come up with any serious objections to arguments like those coming from Kurt Gödel and the like. I am not holding my breath! :)

Kalium 12y ago
It's a giant straw man from end to end, yes. Yet it's also how many of the lay population conceive of divinity.
- cscurmudgeon 12y ago
  I have to agree that most lay conceptions of divinity can't stand much scrutiny.
nitrogen 12y ago
But nobody has come up with any serious objections to arguments like those coming from Kurt Gödel and the like. Reality is measured by evidence, not arguments.
- cscurmudgeon 12y ago
  So math is not real? (So if science uses something imaginary, why is it better than religion?) I should have been more clear. By "argument", I mean't rock solid logical proof from axioms. (This is more of a logician's term.) I will show you a neat simple trick used in introductory logic classes. "Reality is measured by evidence, not arguments." What is the truth value (or probability of being true) of that sentence? Where is the physical data for that?
  - nitrogen 12y ago
    What is Godel's argument that proves Jesus was born to a virgin and came back to life?
    - cscurmudgeon 12y ago
      Straw man. As I said nobody is saying that is true. I don't believe in Christianity. Probably Godel didn't too.
      - nitrogen 12y ago
        Then what is Godel's argument, and why is it so perfect? Once you've answered that, what kind of god does this argument "prove", and why should I believe in it, especially if it's not going to give me eternal life? How does a perfect argument conjure a god into being but not the perfect ice cream sundae and the universal pizza I can imagine?

Kalium 12y ago

It's a giant straw man from end to end, yes. Yet it's also how many of the lay population conceive of divinity.

cscurmudgeon 12y ago
I have to agree that most lay conceptions of divinity can't stand much scrutiny.

nitrogen 12y ago

But nobody has come up with any serious objections to arguments like those coming from Kurt Gödel and the like. Reality is measured by evidence, not arguments.

cscurmudgeon 12y ago
So math is not real? (So if science uses something imaginary, why is it better than religion?) I should have been more clear. By "argument", I mean't rock solid logical proof from axioms. (This is more of a logician's term.) I will show you a neat simple trick used in introductory logic classes. "Reality is measured by evidence, not arguments." What is the truth value (or probability of being true) of that sentence? Where is the physical data for that?
- nitrogen 12y ago
  What is Godel's argument that proves Jesus was born to a virgin and came back to life?
  - cscurmudgeon 12y ago
    Straw man. As I said nobody is saying that is true. I don't believe in Christianity. Probably Godel didn't too.
    - nitrogen 12y ago
      Then what is Godel's argument, and why is it so perfect? Once you've answered that, what kind of god does this argument "prove", and why should I believe in it, especially if it's not going to give me eternal life? How does a perfect argument conjure a god into being but not the perfect ice cream sundae and the universal pizza I can imagine?