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Thanks for the explanation. Japan blew away my expectations while Korea completely failed them (after studying Korean with a private tutor for six months, no l

by getsat 12y ago

Thanks for the explanation. Japan blew away my expectations while Korea completely failed them (after studying Korean with a private tutor for six months, no less... what a waste). Taiwan seems not xenophobic at all unless you're a mainlander. I have a black friend who went there and said everyone was just as welcoming to him as they were to me.

sho_hn 12y ago
Your problem with Korean might have been pronunciation. Korean is a bit harder to pronounce correctly than most people think (and realize, e.g. due to the McGurk effect), especially when learning it at an adult age, when the brain has become quite bad at distinguishing and mimicking new phonemes. It can be quite genuinely hard for Koreans to understand a Westerner speaking Korean correctly, even if you believe there's no difference between how you are pronouncing and they are. The confused looks you get are not mean, then, but just honest. And a lot of Koreans get really excited when Westerners speak any Korean at all and will praise your Korean. What can be frustrating though is that they will often try to use English to speak to you even when you tried to use Korean, instead of using Korean as well. This can also seem rude/belittling but isn't really - often they're just excited to get to use English.
- getsat 12y ago
  Thanks for the reply and mentioning the McGurk effect. Really interesting! Hmm, my teacher's husband said my pronunciation was excellent. I downplayed the comment politely, and he said, "No, I'm serious. You have the best pronunciation of any of our students." I'm not really in a position to judge, though. I just copied the pronunciation/phrases/tone from men speaking in k-dramas I used when learning. None of the Koreans I tried to talk to in SK could speak English, even the young people. Perhaps they were just too afraid to try? The stares/glares also felt very unwelcoming compared to Taiwan and Japan, too. It's the only time in my life I have actually felt unwelcome somewhere.
  - sho_hn 12y ago
    I should be clear that I'm definitely not trying to invalidate your experiences, because I don't really have any that compare, not having visited Korea just yet. I live in Germany, and the Koreans I meet here (we have a decently-sized local ethnicity, a multi-story culture center (http://www.kulturkorea.org/de/ http://www.kulturkorea.org/de/) and a significant Korean expat community (http://berlinreport.com/) http://berlinreport.com/)) are more likely to be attuned to and interested in dealing with Westerners, I guess. And any Korean acquaintances I've made online (IRC, Hello Talk, etc.) are in connection with language learning activities, so they're probably similar. The pronunication theory is based on my own experiences learning the language though (I e.g. found distinguishing and correctly producing some of the tense consonants vs. the basic versions quite tricky initially) and from Koreans admitting that it can be really hard to understand Westerners trying to pronounce their language. I think the above sort of hints at something though: If you're a Westerner curious about Asia, it's probably a good idea to try and make contact with natives who similarly have an appetite for relating to those foreign to them. No doubt there are Koreans not interested in dealing with Westerners; there are people like that everywhere. Doesn't mean you can't find your tribe somewhere in a 50 million people population, though. It's not like you like everyone back home either, probably. Gotta expect the same anywhere you go.

by getsat 12y ago

sho_hn 12y ago

Your problem with Korean might have been pronunciation. Korean is a bit harder to pronounce correctly than most people think (and realize, e.g. due to the McGurk effect), especially when learning it at an adult age, when the brain has become quite bad at distinguishing and mimicking new phonemes. It can be quite genuinely hard for Koreans to understand a Westerner speaking Korean correctly, even if you believe there's no difference between how you are pronouncing and they are. The confused looks you get are not mean, then, but just honest. And a lot of Koreans get really excited when Westerners speak any Korean at all and will praise your Korean. What can be frustrating though is that they will often try to use English to speak to you even when you tried to use Korean, instead of using Korean as well. This can also seem rude/belittling but isn't really - often they're just excited to get to use English.

getsat 12y ago
Thanks for the reply and mentioning the McGurk effect. Really interesting! Hmm, my teacher's husband said my pronunciation was excellent. I downplayed the comment politely, and he said, "No, I'm serious. You have the best pronunciation of any of our students." I'm not really in a position to judge, though. I just copied the pronunciation/phrases/tone from men speaking in k-dramas I used when learning. None of the Koreans I tried to talk to in SK could speak English, even the young people. Perhaps they were just too afraid to try? The stares/glares also felt very unwelcoming compared to Taiwan and Japan, too. It's the only time in my life I have actually felt unwelcome somewhere.
- sho_hn 12y ago
  I should be clear that I'm definitely not trying to invalidate your experiences, because I don't really have any that compare, not having visited Korea just yet. I live in Germany, and the Koreans I meet here (we have a decently-sized local ethnicity, a multi-story culture center (http://www.kulturkorea.org/de/ http://www.kulturkorea.org/de/) and a significant Korean expat community (http://berlinreport.com/) http://berlinreport.com/)) are more likely to be attuned to and interested in dealing with Westerners, I guess. And any Korean acquaintances I've made online (IRC, Hello Talk, etc.) are in connection with language learning activities, so they're probably similar. The pronunication theory is based on my own experiences learning the language though (I e.g. found distinguishing and correctly producing some of the tense consonants vs. the basic versions quite tricky initially) and from Koreans admitting that it can be really hard to understand Westerners trying to pronounce their language. I think the above sort of hints at something though: If you're a Westerner curious about Asia, it's probably a good idea to try and make contact with natives who similarly have an appetite for relating to those foreign to them. No doubt there are Koreans not interested in dealing with Westerners; there are people like that everywhere. Doesn't mean you can't find your tribe somewhere in a 50 million people population, though. It's not like you like everyone back home either, probably. Gotta expect the same anywhere you go.