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Can HackerNews please stop sympathizing with nationalist unions? The perpetual civil war that was the 20th century ended quite some time ago. You can stop fig

Can HackerNews please stop sympathizing with nationalist unions? The perpetual civil war that was the 20th century ended quite some time ago. You can stop fighting those battles now. The losers of that fight have been preordained and now everything just has to play out How do I know this? Simple. When automated cars happen, services like Uber win and antique systems of unions will run to pedantic legal protectionism. When did HackerNews become the hub of pro-nationalist union propaganda anyways?

readme 12y ago
"Can HackerNews please stop sympathizing with nationalist unions?" Nationalist? There's nothing nationalistic about taxi driver unions. In my experience taxi drivers are usually foreign. Not to mention that you've attributed all of hacker news to one hive mind that should agree with whatever you think. I would imagine most people here are rather insulted by that notion You've also presented no real facts or arguments for why Stallman's article is pro-union propaganda. On the other hand, he's presented many compelling arguments for why Uber is an invasion of privacy when compared to a normal taxi service. I agree unions are not helpful: what we should really have is a sound set of labor laws that oblige companies to treat workers fairly instead of leaving them to bargain for it.
- sighsigh 12y ago
  So taxi drivers are going back to their native countries at the end of every shift? Unions, especially service unions revolving around local physical transportation, depend entirely on nationalism. Without a sympathetic federal entity that can supersede local definitions of what work is, you're just a ragtag pack of misfits. And owning a cellphone in general is an invasion of privacy. To single out Uber and ignore the NSA entirely is the hallmark of a hit piece's attempt at deflection. You can't force anyone to treat anyone fairly. All negotiations between two people are exactly that: Between two people. Adding an arbiter only centralizes corruption and makes it easier for the already powerful to get even cheaper labor. Cubans get paid $30 a week while the arbiter mechanism takes the rest. I think the problem is HackerNews is full of people who grew up in free market capitalism and are now fantasizing about what life would be like under mythical unicorn unionism. It's like some kind of forbidden fruit around here.
  - samman 12y ago
    >Unions, especially service unions revolving around local physical transportation, depend entirely on nationalism. Without a sympathetic federal entity that can supersede local definitions of what work is, you're just a ragtag pack of misfits. I'm not so sure that's the case ultimately. If all of Uber's drivers banded together and simply decided not to drive until their terms were met, they'd likely have a good deal of leverage over Uber without any government intervention required. That is the basic concept of unions. Of course, companies have historically tried to circumvent or supress unionized labor in the past, to varying degrees of success.
    - sighsigh 12y ago
      > If all of Uber's drivers banded together and simply decided not to drive until their terms were met, they'd likely have a good deal of leverage over Uber without any government intervention required I have experience with unions and I can tell you that if every Uber driver on earth were to protest right here, right now.. and all you will be doing is creating job openings for other people who will happily get paid less to get the job done. Driving people to and fro isn't exactly a highly skilled job and there is no shortage of people who are made poor because of a car payment. Comments like this are just more proof of HackerNew's magical thinking regarding unions.
      - jljljl 12y ago
        >> I have experience with unions and I can tell you that if every Uber driver on earth were to protest right here, right now.. and all you will be doing is creating job openings for other people who will happily get paid less to get the job done. It depends on how many within the pool of potential Uber drivers join the union, and consequently how great the impact on supply is. If the majority of current Uber drivers agree to representation by a union, I'm not sure they will be so easily replaceable. >> Driving people to and fro isn't exactly a highly skilled job and there is no shortage of people who are made poor because of a car payment. User's brand and pricing relies on skilled drivers, since the driver has to be efficient, knowledgable, and courteous enough to warrant high ratings (Uber drops drivers with low ratings). It also requires drivers who have access to a vehicle that meets Uber's standards. I'm not sure the job is as low skill as you characterize.

readme 12y ago

"Can HackerNews please stop sympathizing with nationalist unions?" Nationalist? There's nothing nationalistic about taxi driver unions. In my experience taxi drivers are usually foreign. Not to mention that you've attributed all of hacker news to one hive mind that should agree with whatever you think. I would imagine most people here are rather insulted by that notion You've also presented no real facts or arguments for why Stallman's article is pro-union propaganda. On the other hand, he's presented many compelling arguments for why Uber is an invasion of privacy when compared to a normal taxi service. I agree unions are not helpful: what we should really have is a sound set of labor laws that oblige companies to treat workers fairly instead of leaving them to bargain for it.

sighsigh 12y ago
So taxi drivers are going back to their native countries at the end of every shift? Unions, especially service unions revolving around local physical transportation, depend entirely on nationalism. Without a sympathetic federal entity that can supersede local definitions of what work is, you're just a ragtag pack of misfits. And owning a cellphone in general is an invasion of privacy. To single out Uber and ignore the NSA entirely is the hallmark of a hit piece's attempt at deflection. You can't force anyone to treat anyone fairly. All negotiations between two people are exactly that: Between two people. Adding an arbiter only centralizes corruption and makes it easier for the already powerful to get even cheaper labor. Cubans get paid $30 a week while the arbiter mechanism takes the rest. I think the problem is HackerNews is full of people who grew up in free market capitalism and are now fantasizing about what life would be like under mythical unicorn unionism. It's like some kind of forbidden fruit around here.
- samman 12y ago
  >Unions, especially service unions revolving around local physical transportation, depend entirely on nationalism. Without a sympathetic federal entity that can supersede local definitions of what work is, you're just a ragtag pack of misfits. I'm not so sure that's the case ultimately. If all of Uber's drivers banded together and simply decided not to drive until their terms were met, they'd likely have a good deal of leverage over Uber without any government intervention required. That is the basic concept of unions. Of course, companies have historically tried to circumvent or supress unionized labor in the past, to varying degrees of success.
  - sighsigh 12y ago
    > If all of Uber's drivers banded together and simply decided not to drive until their terms were met, they'd likely have a good deal of leverage over Uber without any government intervention required I have experience with unions and I can tell you that if every Uber driver on earth were to protest right here, right now.. and all you will be doing is creating job openings for other people who will happily get paid less to get the job done. Driving people to and fro isn't exactly a highly skilled job and there is no shortage of people who are made poor because of a car payment. Comments like this are just more proof of HackerNew's magical thinking regarding unions.
    - jljljl 12y ago
      >> I have experience with unions and I can tell you that if every Uber driver on earth were to protest right here, right now.. and all you will be doing is creating job openings for other people who will happily get paid less to get the job done. It depends on how many within the pool of potential Uber drivers join the union, and consequently how great the impact on supply is. If the majority of current Uber drivers agree to representation by a union, I'm not sure they will be so easily replaceable. >> Driving people to and fro isn't exactly a highly skilled job and there is no shortage of people who are made poor because of a car payment. User's brand and pricing relies on skilled drivers, since the driver has to be efficient, knowledgable, and courteous enough to warrant high ratings (Uber drops drivers with low ratings). It also requires drivers who have access to a vehicle that meets Uber's standards. I'm not sure the job is as low skill as you characterize.