15 ms·

“I can't stop comparing everything to Black Mirror”

robl97 12y ago
Black Mirror is awesome. My favorite episode is "15 Million Merits", which reminds me of the John Maynard Keynes discussion about digging holes in the desert and putting jars filled with banknotes for people to dig up, or Paul Krugman's suggestion about makework preparing for an alien invasion (http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/08/20/coalmines-and-aliens-again/ http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/08/20/coalmines-and-al...). In the future, is any work (even if not that productive, like riding a bike and accumulating points) better than no work and potential social costs?
- vxNsr 12y ago
  I thought the bike riding was generating electricity and the points were really just dollars.
  - bkeroack 12y ago
    The deeper point being, I think, that money in a sense is no more "real" than points on a screen.
    - Zuggy 12y ago
      That's what I got out of the episode, too. And when you look into it there is quite a bit of truth to it. At least in the US, the vast majority of our currency only exists in electronic formats.
      - V-2 12y ago
        The works of Beethoven or greatest chess games of all times could only exist in electronic format as well, without affecting their value. The fact that the value of something is abstracted away from actual physical entities doesn't (by itself) make it in any way inferior. Quite the contrary - it's the ability to grasp the concept of virtual value, rather than only recognizing it in bananas etc. that makes us human. (Sorry about the English, that's a tad too abstract for my working command of the language :/ )
    - zenogais 12y ago
      Money is a social construct, and therefore not materially real. If all human beings disappeared tomorrow dollars/merits/etc. would cease to have real-world efficacy. I thought the deeper point was, perhaps, that everyone has their price. That nothing, not even the very things people think are "radical" or "revolutionary", escapes the logic of money. That everything can be commodified and turned to serve the very system they try to escape.
      - tripzilch 12y ago
        > Money is a social construct, and therefore not materially real. If all human beings disappeared tomorrow dollars/merits/etc. would cease to have real-world efficacy. But so would couches. Without humans they're just ... things, without any implied use of being sat on.
        Evolved 12y ago
        I think he means not necessarily that it's a social construct but that it is intrinsically valueless and serves no purpose without human existance whereas a couch could be used for at least some other purpose than sitting on.
    - zo1 12y ago
      Well, if by "real" you don't mean "constrained by the limitations of physical reality" then sure. But that also depends on what your definition of money is. Note, it might not be the same as others'.
- zentropia 12y ago
  I will say that in ancient times building pyramids was this kind of useless job just to keep everyone busy.
- basch 12y ago
  15 Million Merits brought this article to mind. http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/adamcurtis/posts/HAPPIDROME-Part-One http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/adamcurtis/posts/HAPPIDROME-Part-...
- conistonwater 12y ago
  I think you missed Krugman's point entirely.
  - robl97 12y ago
    "what about the theory of the second best? This theory — which is just basic micro — says that when some markets are distorted, for whatever reason, social costs and benefits across the economy don’t correspond to private costs, so that unprofitable, even seemingly wasteful activities can sometimes be beneficial. And an economy in which millions of willing workers can’t find work is surely one with massive distortions of some kind."
    - conistonwater 12y ago
      Yes, notice the part > And an economy in which millions of willing workers can’t find work is surely one with massive distortions of some kind. He is talking about very specific economic circumstances (defined by macroeconomic conditions, and which should happen only rarely), whereas you are talking about "any work in the future".
waterlesscloud 12y ago
Black Mirror is about the way our current and near-future technologies expose and amplify our psychologies, and it's absolutely brilliant about it. Brilliant and brutal.
- dbcooper 12y ago
  If you want more reading along this line, I cannot recommend JG Ballard highly enough.
  - gojomo 12y ago
    Also, Greg Egan. Much of his stuff is far-out hard SF, but many of the short stories are near-future stuff that could easily be a Black Mirror episode. The 'cookie' in White Christmas is very similar to the 'ndoli jewel' of several of Egan's stories.
  - alx 12y ago
    which of his books would you recommend ?
    - ris 12y ago
      My favourites are his short stories. There's a "complete collection" available.
    - DanBC 12y ago
      "High Rise" is accessible. It was written in 1975 so might be a bit dated. http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/underappreciated-masterpieces-jg-ballards-high-rise-1975 http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/underappreciated-masterpieces...
      - dbcooper 12y ago
        Ben Wheatley's film adaptation is in post-production now, and is getting a lot of hype from people I know in the UK film/TV industry. Really looking forward to seeing Jeremy Irons in it!
jacquesm 12y ago
Black Mirror is a very good series, it is absolutely brutal but brilliant in the merciless way in which it exposes the potential downsides of the technology we take for granted. Highly recommended but be prepared to be shocked in unpleasant ways. The entire history of you is imo the best one so far, with 15 million merit points a close second.
- Fede_V 12y ago
  I thought 15 million points was by far the best. TV shows like Big Brother, X-factor, etc, all pray on the vulnerability that certain people have for wanting to seek out fame and notoriety. Incidentally, Sony had a recent patent for interactive advertisement, that only disappears after user interaction: http://fortune.com/2013/04/30/sony-patent-is-hilarious-terrifying/ http://fortune.com/2013/04/30/sony-patent-is-hilarious-terri...
- balls187 12y ago
  The first episode, in the first series, I think does a great job of shocking you. For me, I enjoy that for the most part, the plots are plausible and not that far fetched. It doesn't require a huge leap of the imagination to get to scenarios that are outlined. Plus I think the special effects are fantastic in their subtlety.
- V-2 12y ago
  I've just watched two first episodes out of curiosity... they were so heavy-handed, especially the second one, that it was nauseating. Does it get better later on?
michaelochurch 12y ago
Spoilers ahead. "Fifteen Million Merits": This one probably hit the hardest, because that is Corporate America. People are doing work that is fundamentally useless (the energy they'll produce, on these bikes, is less than they'll consume in food) to be kept busy for no clear purpose, and the ultimate conclusion is that those in control just enjoy the exercise of power. (See: the humiliation of Abi Khan.) This is most terrifying and poignant because the in-app-purchase existence is actually a plausible future of corporatized consumer capitalism. "White Bear" and "White Christmas", two episodes both invoking the concept of human-created hell, are brilliant because they show an overblown sense of mob justice. In White Bear, the woman doesn't remember the crime and has been tortured and memory-wiped beyond recognition, so she's essentially not the same person who committed it and effectively innocent. In White Christmas, the most disturbing and bizarre thing about the end is that it's not the criminal, but a copied consciousness that did nothing wrong because it didn't exist when the crime occurred, the one created for the interrogation, who suffers in the "1000 years per minute" auto-hell. The actual criminal just spends Christmas in jail. "National Anthem" is brilliant but hard to evaluate for plausibility because the U.S. doesn't have the same class system. We have severe inequality, but no one would fault a U.S. President for choosing not to fuck a pig at the risk of Kim Kardashian or Paris Hilton. Still brilliant, and an interesting take on the Streisand Effect (if he chooses to fight the publicity, he increases it, and the image of him fucking a pig can't really be erased). I also like the dig at "modern art" because most of it is trolling. [0] [0] Actually, there's a lot of great art being made, even now. The problem with "modern art" is that there's a weird inversion where the gold remains obscure, and absolute junk sells for millions to rich people, because "making a statement" has taken more value than craftsmanship and aesthetic value in that joke of a scene. "Entire History of You" kinda defeated its own point, if you ask me. His wife actually was unfaithful and he figured it out. Sure, it was emotionally unpleasant for him-- no news there-- but would he have been better off not knowing and raising that douchebag's kids? The main plot one wasn't really about the perils of technology. The moral was, "Don't marry a cheating harlot", but that one's over 9000 years old. "Be Right Back" I found to be a luke-warm exploitation of the uncanny valley. I can see why that episode would appeal to people, and I won't say that it wasn't well done because all of these have been excellent; it just didn't hit me. "The Waldo Moment" I found hilarious because I enjoy crass and obnoxious humor as much as anyone. That said, the ending wasn't plausible. People develop an immunity to that shit over time. It could unseat one political candidate, sure, but Waldo would lose its punch and its extortive capabilities. Mockery has power, for sure, but eventually people learn to tune it out. Not plausible to its full extent, but still poignant, and a bit funny for the sheer obnoxiousness ("breaching experiments") and stupidity of the Waldo character.
_almosnow 12y ago
Since this discussion turned pretty much into a poll of which's your favorite episode, I'll go. Fifteen million merits was by far the best for me, not only that, it is one of the best short stories I've ever seen on TV. The fact that the series was produced and distributed by Endemol it's even more appealing.
kalleboo 12y ago
While we're recommending Charlie Brooker stuff, be sure to watch "2014 Wipe" as well. My favorite part was a thought-provoking bit by Adam Curtis about how we're being bombarded with conflicting messages, which he explains is why a lot of feel so confused these days.
- patzerhacker 12y ago
  I also heartily recommend "How TV Ruined Your Life" which serves as sort of a capstone volume to the entire run of "Screenwipe".
corford 12y ago
Slightly OT but if you have access to iplayer and missed it yesterday, Charlie Brooker's "2014 Wipe" was brilliant (including the sneak preview half way through of Adam Curtis' latest documentary due out next month which looks fantastic).
- Freaky 12y ago
  Missed that, thanks. Direct link: http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b04w7ytd/charlie-brookers-2014-wipe http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b04w7ytd/charlie-brooke...
ZeroGravitas 12y ago
There's also Dead Set, a one-off from the same team (or at least writer) which is the contestants on a Big Brother reality show unaware that a zombie apocalypse has started while they are sealed in the house. Available on 4oD I think.
rikkus 12y ago
If you like this, you might like... Charlie Brooker has a regular column in The Guardian, which is, I believe, available to non-British people via something called The Internet: http://www.theguardian.com/profile/charliebrooker http://www.theguardian.com/profile/charliebrooker
- proveanegative 12y ago
  Fans of Black Mirror desperate for more would be better served watching Dead Set, a gory satire of reality television, and perhaps Nathan Barley, the series that "The Waldo Moment" was originally written for, before they head for Charlie Brooker's column in The Guardian. I found the content of the column too mired in British partisan politics for me to enjoy.
  - RobertKerans 12y ago
    Brass Eye is very much worth a watch as well, if you're mentioning [the excellent] Nathan Barley. And Four Lions.
    - chriswarbo 12y ago
      Black Mirror reminds me a lot of Jam, also by Chris Morris.
      - RobertKerans 12y ago
        Jam is IMO fantastic, I always hesitate to recommend it due to how brutally black the comedy is, though. The radio original, Blue Jam, is great as well.
skazka16 12y ago
Black Mirror is brilliant! I can also recommend Utopia.
- M2Ys4U 12y ago
  Utopia is a brilliant show. It's a shame that Channel 4 axed it, though, and I'm anxious that the US remake will butcher its legacy.
alecco 12y ago
If you like Black Mirror, you might also like Charlie Brooker's Wipe, now a yearly summary of news. A bit UK centric but very good. This year's is just out: UK http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b04w7ytd/charlie-brookers-2014-wipe http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b04w7ytd/charlie-brooke... World https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3EoNsGHZD0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3EoNsGHZD0
mavdi 12y ago
I live in London. My wife being Spanish I get to travel to Spain a lot, at times I stay in Spain for a few weeks. I'd always notice a certain level of relief whenever I'd set foot in Spain. Like a great weight was being lifted off my shoulders. And then one day I realised what it was... I don't want to sound too doomy but it was the fact that one is constantly under watch in a place like the UK. On average, you're caught 300 times on camera every day. All my messages and emails go through GCHQ proxies, if anything is left unwatched NSA will make sure it's all on record. HMRC knows every little details of financial information. All my Amazon purchases, my online grocery orders, the games I play on my console, damn I'm not sure Kinect is not somehow recording all the conversations in my house in some server. The point is, for me the dystopian future I'd always worry about is here. It's creeping into every aspect of my life and already taking away any calm in life I'm left with.
godDLL 12y ago
I feel this way about mobile phones. Everyone's supposed to carry one of those random disruption devices.

Black Mirror is awesome. My favorite episode is "15 Million Merits", which reminds me of the John Maynard Keynes discussion about digging holes in the desert and putting jars filled with banknotes for people to dig up, or Paul Krugman's suggestion about makework preparing for an alien invasion (http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/08/20/coalmines-and-aliens-again/ http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/08/20/coalmines-and-al...). In the future, is any work (even if not that productive, like riding a bike and accumulating points) better than no work and potential social costs?

vxNsr 12y ago
I thought the bike riding was generating electricity and the points were really just dollars.
- bkeroack 12y ago
  The deeper point being, I think, that money in a sense is no more "real" than points on a screen.
  - Zuggy 12y ago
    That's what I got out of the episode, too. And when you look into it there is quite a bit of truth to it. At least in the US, the vast majority of our currency only exists in electronic formats.
    - V-2 12y ago
      The works of Beethoven or greatest chess games of all times could only exist in electronic format as well, without affecting their value. The fact that the value of something is abstracted away from actual physical entities doesn't (by itself) make it in any way inferior. Quite the contrary - it's the ability to grasp the concept of virtual value, rather than only recognizing it in bananas etc. that makes us human. (Sorry about the English, that's a tad too abstract for my working command of the language :/ )
  - zenogais 12y ago
    Money is a social construct, and therefore not materially real. If all human beings disappeared tomorrow dollars/merits/etc. would cease to have real-world efficacy. I thought the deeper point was, perhaps, that everyone has their price. That nothing, not even the very things people think are "radical" or "revolutionary", escapes the logic of money. That everything can be commodified and turned to serve the very system they try to escape.
    - tripzilch 12y ago
      > Money is a social construct, and therefore not materially real. If all human beings disappeared tomorrow dollars/merits/etc. would cease to have real-world efficacy. But so would couches. Without humans they're just ... things, without any implied use of being sat on.
      - Evolved 12y ago
        I think he means not necessarily that it's a social construct but that it is intrinsically valueless and serves no purpose without human existance whereas a couch could be used for at least some other purpose than sitting on.
  - zo1 12y ago
    Well, if by "real" you don't mean "constrained by the limitations of physical reality" then sure. But that also depends on what your definition of money is. Note, it might not be the same as others'.
zentropia 12y ago
I will say that in ancient times building pyramids was this kind of useless job just to keep everyone busy.
basch 12y ago
15 Million Merits brought this article to mind. http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/adamcurtis/posts/HAPPIDROME-Part-One http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/adamcurtis/posts/HAPPIDROME-Part-...
conistonwater 12y ago
I think you missed Krugman's point entirely.
- robl97 12y ago
  "what about the theory of the second best? This theory — which is just basic micro — says that when some markets are distorted, for whatever reason, social costs and benefits across the economy don’t correspond to private costs, so that unprofitable, even seemingly wasteful activities can sometimes be beneficial. And an economy in which millions of willing workers can’t find work is surely one with massive distortions of some kind."
  - conistonwater 12y ago
    Yes, notice the part > And an economy in which millions of willing workers can’t find work is surely one with massive distortions of some kind. He is talking about very specific economic circumstances (defined by macroeconomic conditions, and which should happen only rarely), whereas you are talking about "any work in the future".

waterlesscloud 12y ago

Black Mirror is about the way our current and near-future technologies expose and amplify our psychologies, and it's absolutely brilliant about it. Brilliant and brutal.

dbcooper 12y ago
If you want more reading along this line, I cannot recommend JG Ballard highly enough.
- gojomo 12y ago
  Also, Greg Egan. Much of his stuff is far-out hard SF, but many of the short stories are near-future stuff that could easily be a Black Mirror episode. The 'cookie' in White Christmas is very similar to the 'ndoli jewel' of several of Egan's stories.
- alx 12y ago
  which of his books would you recommend ?
  - ris 12y ago
    My favourites are his short stories. There's a "complete collection" available.
  - DanBC 12y ago
    "High Rise" is accessible. It was written in 1975 so might be a bit dated. http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/underappreciated-masterpieces-jg-ballards-high-rise-1975 http://www.vice.com/en_uk/read/underappreciated-masterpieces...
    - dbcooper 12y ago
      Ben Wheatley's film adaptation is in post-production now, and is getting a lot of hype from people I know in the UK film/TV industry. Really looking forward to seeing Jeremy Irons in it!

jacquesm 12y ago

Black Mirror is a very good series, it is absolutely brutal but brilliant in the merciless way in which it exposes the potential downsides of the technology we take for granted. Highly recommended but be prepared to be shocked in unpleasant ways. The entire history of you is imo the best one so far, with 15 million merit points a close second.

Fede_V 12y ago
I thought 15 million points was by far the best. TV shows like Big Brother, X-factor, etc, all pray on the vulnerability that certain people have for wanting to seek out fame and notoriety. Incidentally, Sony had a recent patent for interactive advertisement, that only disappears after user interaction: http://fortune.com/2013/04/30/sony-patent-is-hilarious-terrifying/ http://fortune.com/2013/04/30/sony-patent-is-hilarious-terri...
balls187 12y ago
The first episode, in the first series, I think does a great job of shocking you. For me, I enjoy that for the most part, the plots are plausible and not that far fetched. It doesn't require a huge leap of the imagination to get to scenarios that are outlined. Plus I think the special effects are fantastic in their subtlety.
V-2 12y ago
I've just watched two first episodes out of curiosity... they were so heavy-handed, especially the second one, that it was nauseating. Does it get better later on?

michaelochurch 12y ago

Spoilers ahead. "Fifteen Million Merits": This one probably hit the hardest, because that is Corporate America. People are doing work that is fundamentally useless (the energy they'll produce, on these bikes, is less than they'll consume in food) to be kept busy for no clear purpose, and the ultimate conclusion is that those in control just enjoy the exercise of power. (See: the humiliation of Abi Khan.) This is most terrifying and poignant because the in-app-purchase existence is actually a plausible future of corporatized consumer capitalism. "White Bear" and "White Christmas", two episodes both invoking the concept of human-created hell, are brilliant because they show an overblown sense of mob justice. In White Bear, the woman doesn't remember the crime and has been tortured and memory-wiped beyond recognition, so she's essentially not the same person who committed it and effectively innocent. In White Christmas, the most disturbing and bizarre thing about the end is that it's not the criminal, but a copied consciousness that did nothing wrong because it didn't exist when the crime occurred, the one created for the interrogation, who suffers in the "1000 years per minute" auto-hell. The actual criminal just spends Christmas in jail. "National Anthem" is brilliant but hard to evaluate for plausibility because the U.S. doesn't have the same class system. We have severe inequality, but no one would fault a U.S. President for choosing not to fuck a pig at the risk of Kim Kardashian or Paris Hilton. Still brilliant, and an interesting take on the Streisand Effect (if he chooses to fight the publicity, he increases it, and the image of him fucking a pig can't really be erased). I also like the dig at "modern art" because most of it is trolling. [0] [0] Actually, there's a lot of great art being made, even now. The problem with "modern art" is that there's a weird inversion where the gold remains obscure, and absolute junk sells for millions to rich people, because "making a statement" has taken more value than craftsmanship and aesthetic value in that joke of a scene. "Entire History of You" kinda defeated its own point, if you ask me. His wife actually was unfaithful and he figured it out. Sure, it was emotionally unpleasant for him-- no news there-- but would he have been better off not knowing and raising that douchebag's kids? The main plot one wasn't really about the perils of technology. The moral was, "Don't marry a cheating harlot", but that one's over 9000 years old. "Be Right Back" I found to be a luke-warm exploitation of the uncanny valley. I can see why that episode would appeal to people, and I won't say that it wasn't well done because all of these have been excellent; it just didn't hit me. "The Waldo Moment" I found hilarious because I enjoy crass and obnoxious humor as much as anyone. That said, the ending wasn't plausible. People develop an immunity to that shit over time. It could unseat one political candidate, sure, but Waldo would lose its punch and its extortive capabilities. Mockery has power, for sure, but eventually people learn to tune it out. Not plausible to its full extent, but still poignant, and a bit funny for the sheer obnoxiousness ("breaching experiments") and stupidity of the Waldo character.

_almosnow 12y ago

Since this discussion turned pretty much into a poll of which's your favorite episode, I'll go. Fifteen million merits was by far the best for me, not only that, it is one of the best short stories I've ever seen on TV. The fact that the series was produced and distributed by Endemol it's even more appealing.

kalleboo 12y ago

While we're recommending Charlie Brooker stuff, be sure to watch "2014 Wipe" as well. My favorite part was a thought-provoking bit by Adam Curtis about how we're being bombarded with conflicting messages, which he explains is why a lot of feel so confused these days.

patzerhacker 12y ago
I also heartily recommend "How TV Ruined Your Life" which serves as sort of a capstone volume to the entire run of "Screenwipe".

corford 12y ago

Slightly OT but if you have access to iplayer and missed it yesterday, Charlie Brooker's "2014 Wipe" was brilliant (including the sneak preview half way through of Adam Curtis' latest documentary due out next month which looks fantastic).

Freaky 12y ago
Missed that, thanks. Direct link: http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b04w7ytd/charlie-brookers-2014-wipe http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b04w7ytd/charlie-brooke...

ZeroGravitas 12y ago

There's also Dead Set, a one-off from the same team (or at least writer) which is the contestants on a Big Brother reality show unaware that a zombie apocalypse has started while they are sealed in the house. Available on 4oD I think.

rikkus 12y ago

If you like this, you might like... Charlie Brooker has a regular column in The Guardian, which is, I believe, available to non-British people via something called The Internet: http://www.theguardian.com/profile/charliebrooker http://www.theguardian.com/profile/charliebrooker

proveanegative 12y ago
Fans of Black Mirror desperate for more would be better served watching Dead Set, a gory satire of reality television, and perhaps Nathan Barley, the series that "The Waldo Moment" was originally written for, before they head for Charlie Brooker's column in The Guardian. I found the content of the column too mired in British partisan politics for me to enjoy.
- RobertKerans 12y ago
  Brass Eye is very much worth a watch as well, if you're mentioning [the excellent] Nathan Barley. And Four Lions.
  - chriswarbo 12y ago
    Black Mirror reminds me a lot of Jam, also by Chris Morris.
    - RobertKerans 12y ago
      Jam is IMO fantastic, I always hesitate to recommend it due to how brutally black the comedy is, though. The radio original, Blue Jam, is great as well.

skazka16 12y ago

Black Mirror is brilliant! I can also recommend Utopia.

M2Ys4U 12y ago
Utopia is a brilliant show. It's a shame that Channel 4 axed it, though, and I'm anxious that the US remake will butcher its legacy.

alecco 12y ago

If you like Black Mirror, you might also like Charlie Brooker's Wipe, now a yearly summary of news. A bit UK centric but very good. This year's is just out: UK http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b04w7ytd/charlie-brookers-2014-wipe http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b04w7ytd/charlie-brooke... World https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3EoNsGHZD0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t3EoNsGHZD0

mavdi 12y ago

I live in London. My wife being Spanish I get to travel to Spain a lot, at times I stay in Spain for a few weeks. I'd always notice a certain level of relief whenever I'd set foot in Spain. Like a great weight was being lifted off my shoulders. And then one day I realised what it was... I don't want to sound too doomy but it was the fact that one is constantly under watch in a place like the UK. On average, you're caught 300 times on camera every day. All my messages and emails go through GCHQ proxies, if anything is left unwatched NSA will make sure it's all on record. HMRC knows every little details of financial information. All my Amazon purchases, my online grocery orders, the games I play on my console, damn I'm not sure Kinect is not somehow recording all the conversations in my house in some server. The point is, for me the dystopian future I'd always worry about is here. It's creeping into every aspect of my life and already taking away any calm in life I'm left with.

godDLL 12y ago

I feel this way about mobile phones. Everyone's supposed to carry one of those random disruption devices.