5 ms·

The good news is that law enforcement agencies aren't completely helpless in these cases and are actively developing technology (a la Torpedo†) to infiltrate th

by minimax 12y ago

The good news is that law enforcement agencies aren't completely helpless in these cases and are actively developing technology (a la Torpedo†) to infiltrate these sites and prosecute their users. † http://www.wired.com/2014/08/operation_torpedo/ http://www.wired.com/2014/08/operation_torpedo/

jcromartie 12y ago
This is good news?
- modarts 12y ago
  It absolutely is. I'd be interested to hear a counterargument though.
  - TillE 12y ago
    A system that is not secure for bad people is not secure for anyone. Tor is pretty good though, and few attacks relate to its core functionality.
  - stefantalpalaru 12y ago
    They used an iframe for the payload that could be easily placed on legitimate sites by third parties to put innocent people on FBI's pedophile list.
  - jcromartie 12y ago
    You will just have to take the FBI at their word that it's for your own good, then. It's not clear from that Wired article that they stopped anybody who actually abused children. What they have obviously accomplished, however, is a way to decloak at least some users of Tor and probably dissuaded many more people from using it for secure anonymous communication.
- rubiquity 12y ago
  Bad news for Tor, good news for humanity, excluding the parts of humanity that are privy on privacy.
Squarel 12y ago
Law enforcement are not completely helpless in that they use TOR to access these sites themselves, as per the article: " Law enforcement and anti-abuse groups patrol pedophilia Dark Web sites to measure and track them, for instance, which can count as a “visit.”"
wcummings 12y ago
Good news? If LE can deanonymize pedophiles with malware they can deanonymize dissidents with malware. The capability is the problem, if it wasn't, we wouldn't need Tor. As much as people don't want it to be true, this is an all or nothing situation. Tor is secure for everyone, or no one. You've got to crack a few eggs to make an omelet...
- sliverstorm 12y ago
  It's a blunt tool though. If 99% of the time it is used for evil that might suggest we should try to come up with a more precise tool, rather than declaring that all the human suffering it causes is automatically justified by having a safe harbor for dissidents.
- minimax 12y ago
  This is not a Maude Flanders "won't someone think of the children!" type issue. This is bad guys actively and horrifically abusing children. It's a good thing the LEAs are going after them with technologically sophisticated countermeasures. Good for them and we're all better off for it.
  - wcummings 12y ago
    There's no middle ground. Tor enables activists, journalists, marginalized groups etc, as well as pedophiles, drug dealers and all sorts of criminals. You can't have one without the other. It's either censor-resistant or its not. It sounds like you don't think the trade off is worthwhile, which is not an unfair opinion, it's just important to acknowledge there's no middle ground here.
- rohit89 12y ago
  I'm a little wary of having a 100% bullet-proof tool given its potential for abuse. I also feel that anonymity should incur a certain cost. It shouldn't be as simple as simply firing up tor if you want to leak launch codes. It should be one step of a process (like losing a tail) rather than some magic cloak of invisibility.

by minimax 12y ago

jcromartie 12y ago

This is good news?

modarts 12y ago
It absolutely is. I'd be interested to hear a counterargument though.
- TillE 12y ago
  A system that is not secure for bad people is not secure for anyone. Tor is pretty good though, and few attacks relate to its core functionality.
- stefantalpalaru 12y ago
  They used an iframe for the payload that could be easily placed on legitimate sites by third parties to put innocent people on FBI's pedophile list.
- jcromartie 12y ago
  You will just have to take the FBI at their word that it's for your own good, then. It's not clear from that Wired article that they stopped anybody who actually abused children. What they have obviously accomplished, however, is a way to decloak at least some users of Tor and probably dissuaded many more people from using it for secure anonymous communication.
rubiquity 12y ago
Bad news for Tor, good news for humanity, excluding the parts of humanity that are privy on privacy.

Squarel 12y ago

Law enforcement are not completely helpless in that they use TOR to access these sites themselves, as per the article: " Law enforcement and anti-abuse groups patrol pedophilia Dark Web sites to measure and track them, for instance, which can count as a “visit.”"

wcummings 12y ago

Good news? If LE can deanonymize pedophiles with malware they can deanonymize dissidents with malware. The capability is the problem, if it wasn't, we wouldn't need Tor. As much as people don't want it to be true, this is an all or nothing situation. Tor is secure for everyone, or no one. You've got to crack a few eggs to make an omelet...

sliverstorm 12y ago
It's a blunt tool though. If 99% of the time it is used for evil that might suggest we should try to come up with a more precise tool, rather than declaring that all the human suffering it causes is automatically justified by having a safe harbor for dissidents.
minimax 12y ago
This is not a Maude Flanders "won't someone think of the children!" type issue. This is bad guys actively and horrifically abusing children. It's a good thing the LEAs are going after them with technologically sophisticated countermeasures. Good for them and we're all better off for it.
- wcummings 12y ago
  There's no middle ground. Tor enables activists, journalists, marginalized groups etc, as well as pedophiles, drug dealers and all sorts of criminals. You can't have one without the other. It's either censor-resistant or its not. It sounds like you don't think the trade off is worthwhile, which is not an unfair opinion, it's just important to acknowledge there's no middle ground here.
rohit89 12y ago
I'm a little wary of having a 100% bullet-proof tool given its potential for abuse. I also feel that anonymity should incur a certain cost. It shouldn't be as simple as simply firing up tor if you want to leak launch codes. It should be one step of a process (like losing a tail) rather than some magic cloak of invisibility.