5 ms·

This needs to be said more. I absolutely love being in an open office layout because it allows for easy collaboration as well as the occasional spontaneous fun

by trose 12y ago

This needs to be said more. I absolutely love being in an open office layout because it allows for easy collaboration as well as the occasional spontaneous fun interruption. People seem to get hung up on the interruptions as if they lose tons and tons of productivity. I just haven't experienced issues like that personally. I find that the interruptions are a welcome break to the monotony of staring at code for 8 hours a day. The privacy issue also needs to be addressed on a cultural level as well. My first job was open layout but I had one of those nosey managers that wants to know what you're doing every 15 minutes. I got talked to for being on Facebook during my lunch break. In order to really have a successful open office layout you need to have everyone on board and prepared to "let go" a little. Yeah people goof off during the day. We aren't robots that can sit down at 8:30 and constantly type for the next 8 to 9 hours. At my current job no one really cares if they walk up to you to ask a question and you happen to be taking a couple minutes to clear your head and look at cat gifs. I think that's the way it should be.

fsloth 12y ago
"occasional spontaneous fun interruptions" I would prefer to choose when to have my interruptions.
- JackFr 12y ago
  Then it's not spontaneous. Hell, if you choose it it's not even an interruption.
  - fsloth 12y ago
    I'm probably a borderline ADD. My mind interrupts me constantly with spontaneus and needy impulses. "A factory pattern, you say? Well.. Oh, look, a squirrel!"
- hack_edu 12y ago
  Or, at least not have to listen to the guys one pod over "spontaneously" discussing last night's sports statistics for a half hour block on the daily. Perhaps they're "doing it wrong" but they have their right to "spontaneous fun" things too. We're all adults and only have so much say, even one's manager. All it takes is one conflict and the concept eats itself alive.
equalarrow 12y ago
Staring at code 8 hours a day.. Maybe that's the problem. As someone who's had to run programming groups and do the programming work, I will say open floor plans are the worst idea ever. If you need/want to get into the zone on a project and actually make progress, the open floor plan will keep you from doing that as much as possible. For breaks, the last thing I would be doing is going on facebook or checking email or doing other useless crap like that. Your job sounds horrible if people can just walk up any time for any reason. And if you're spending time looking at cat gif's then I think you or your manager needs to revisit how you're spending your time. Doesn't sound like work to me. Sorry...
- wuliwong 12y ago
  You sound like a really angry person. What do you do on your breaks? And you really think checking emails is useless? Honestly, if the OP is checking his emails on his breaks, he actually sounds like he's being productive. OP also clearly said he looked at cat gifs to clear his head. If you cannot understand the need for a programmer to clear their head from time to time, then you are not a programmer and if you did manage programmers, you were awful at it.
  - frostmatthew 12y ago
    The points you are attempting to make can probably be made in a more mature and respectful manner. Just because someone's opinion differs than yours doesn't mean they are an "angry person" or "awful" at what they do.
- bduerst 12y ago
  >Your job sounds horrible if people can just walk up any time for any reason. I think this speaks more to what you think about your coworkers than actually weighing in on open floor plans.
  - mindcrime 12y ago
    I adore my coworkers, I agree with the post you're replying to. An environment that encourages random "walk up" interruptions is a terrible environment in many ways. With an office with a door it's easy enough to shut the door to indicate "I need to be left alone now" and open the door when you're in an "it's OK to interrupt me" frame.
wuliwong 12y ago
Whoever down-voted your comment should have that privilege revoked. trose's comment was completely on topic and well thought out. Down-voting is not to be used when you simply disagree.
- Fuzzwah 12y ago
  Downvoting is for however the user wants to use it. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=117171 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=117171 > pg 2455 days ago | link | parent | flag > I think it's ok to use the up and down arrows to express agreement. Obviously the uparrows aren't only for applauding politeness, so it seems reasonable that the downarrows aren't only for booing rudeness. > It only becomes abuse when people resort to karma bombing: downvoting a lot of comments by one user without reading them in order to subtract maximum karma. Fortunately we now have several levels of software to protect against that.
  - nilkn 12y ago
    This is a pretty big tangent, but I fairly strongly disagree with pg on this. The fact that upvotes and downvotes are not treated symmetrically seems to imply that they really aren't suitable for merely conveying agreement or disagreement. Somebody's comment shouldn't literally be greyed out, sometimes to the point of being illegible, because a few people disagreed with it. This combination -- using downvotes freely to express disagreement, and hiding or fading out downvoted comments -- is a recipe for groupthink. It's very nearly a form of censoring comments that are maybe contentious but in no way inflammatory or off-topic or poorly written.
  - ryandvm 12y ago
    Meh. Maybe if you think Paul Graham is a god.
frostmatthew 12y ago
> I absolutely love being in an open office layout because it allows for easy collaboration For collaboration nothing beats an open office layout. But collaborative periods make up a very small amount of our [developers] time. If we spent most of our time collaborating then maybe open office layouts would make some sense (though maybe not, since there's still downsides to consider). It is illogical to choose an office layout based on what you spend a small fraction of your time doing.

by trose 12y ago

fsloth 12y ago

"occasional spontaneous fun interruptions" I would prefer to choose when to have my interruptions.

JackFr 12y ago
Then it's not spontaneous. Hell, if you choose it it's not even an interruption.
- fsloth 12y ago
  I'm probably a borderline ADD. My mind interrupts me constantly with spontaneus and needy impulses. "A factory pattern, you say? Well.. Oh, look, a squirrel!"
hack_edu 12y ago
Or, at least not have to listen to the guys one pod over "spontaneously" discussing last night's sports statistics for a half hour block on the daily. Perhaps they're "doing it wrong" but they have their right to "spontaneous fun" things too. We're all adults and only have so much say, even one's manager. All it takes is one conflict and the concept eats itself alive.

equalarrow 12y ago

Staring at code 8 hours a day.. Maybe that's the problem. As someone who's had to run programming groups and do the programming work, I will say open floor plans are the worst idea ever. If you need/want to get into the zone on a project and actually make progress, the open floor plan will keep you from doing that as much as possible. For breaks, the last thing I would be doing is going on facebook or checking email or doing other useless crap like that. Your job sounds horrible if people can just walk up any time for any reason. And if you're spending time looking at cat gif's then I think you or your manager needs to revisit how you're spending your time. Doesn't sound like work to me. Sorry...

wuliwong 12y ago
You sound like a really angry person. What do you do on your breaks? And you really think checking emails is useless? Honestly, if the OP is checking his emails on his breaks, he actually sounds like he's being productive. OP also clearly said he looked at cat gifs to clear his head. If you cannot understand the need for a programmer to clear their head from time to time, then you are not a programmer and if you did manage programmers, you were awful at it.
- frostmatthew 12y ago
  The points you are attempting to make can probably be made in a more mature and respectful manner. Just because someone's opinion differs than yours doesn't mean they are an "angry person" or "awful" at what they do.
bduerst 12y ago
>Your job sounds horrible if people can just walk up any time for any reason. I think this speaks more to what you think about your coworkers than actually weighing in on open floor plans.
- mindcrime 12y ago
  I adore my coworkers, I agree with the post you're replying to. An environment that encourages random "walk up" interruptions is a terrible environment in many ways. With an office with a door it's easy enough to shut the door to indicate "I need to be left alone now" and open the door when you're in an "it's OK to interrupt me" frame.

wuliwong 12y ago

Whoever down-voted your comment should have that privilege revoked. trose's comment was completely on topic and well thought out. Down-voting is not to be used when you simply disagree.

Fuzzwah 12y ago
Downvoting is for however the user wants to use it. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=117171 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=117171 > pg 2455 days ago | link | parent | flag > I think it's ok to use the up and down arrows to express agreement. Obviously the uparrows aren't only for applauding politeness, so it seems reasonable that the downarrows aren't only for booing rudeness. > It only becomes abuse when people resort to karma bombing: downvoting a lot of comments by one user without reading them in order to subtract maximum karma. Fortunately we now have several levels of software to protect against that.
- nilkn 12y ago
  This is a pretty big tangent, but I fairly strongly disagree with pg on this. The fact that upvotes and downvotes are not treated symmetrically seems to imply that they really aren't suitable for merely conveying agreement or disagreement. Somebody's comment shouldn't literally be greyed out, sometimes to the point of being illegible, because a few people disagreed with it. This combination -- using downvotes freely to express disagreement, and hiding or fading out downvoted comments -- is a recipe for groupthink. It's very nearly a form of censoring comments that are maybe contentious but in no way inflammatory or off-topic or poorly written.
- ryandvm 12y ago
  Meh. Maybe if you think Paul Graham is a god.

frostmatthew 12y ago

> I absolutely love being in an open office layout because it allows for easy collaboration For collaboration nothing beats an open office layout. But collaborative periods make up a very small amount of our [developers] time. If we spent most of our time collaborating then maybe open office layouts would make some sense (though maybe not, since there's still downsides to consider). It is illogical to choose an office layout based on what you spend a small fraction of your time doing.