4 ms·

I'm perpetually torn about this -- on the one hand, the way they want to serve relevant ads is by knowing everything about my life, even if I don't want them to

I'm perpetually torn about this -- on the one hand, the way they want to serve relevant ads is by knowing everything about my life, even if I don't want them to. On the other hand, I'll get really relevant ads. That's kind of nice.

rrtulsa 12y ago
I am much more complex than my search history- I find that "relevance" to me can depend on things as diverse as my current mood. I too am torn because I know that increased relevance means I am giving away more and more of myself- I'm pretty sure that G has no limits in this pursuit of "relevance."
- derekp7 12y ago
  I hate this so much -- I'll search for some topic, and start getting ads all over the internet related to that topic. Case in point -- a few weeks ago I clicked on an article regarding "Computer Scientist Barbie", and clicked through the Amazon link. Guess how many Barbie advertisements I'm getting now.
  - dorfsmay 12y ago
    Use browser profiles (default in chrome, add multifox in firefox), and delete all cookies regularly on your default profile.
  - toddkaufmann 12y ago
    Why are you getting ads ? Install adblock and/or ghostery. Fewer distractions, fewer cycles going to adware. I don't see ads in search results or gmail, and not a lot of other places either. Noticeably different on a tablet though, where it doesn't run. At the other extreme is adnauseum, which clicks on every ad link in the background (so you don't have to).
    - kbenson 12y ago
      I don't know about the above commenter, but I have a complex relationship with ads and adblock. I installed it to get around some particularly nauseating behavior of some sites long ago, and largely forgot about it and browsed blissfully unaware of how much it was helping. Then I realized that someone else's Pandora was playing ads, and mine wasn't, it just plays song after song. I felt rather bad about that. This is a well established transactional structure which we are all used to on the radio, songs interspersed with the occasional ad to generate revenue. I feel like I've been stealing from Pandora for a few months now, especially because I've been on the cusp of paying for it for a few months even without the ads. Visual content with visual ads isn't really that different, except that some sites vastly overshoot the expected norm for the ad-inconvenience to content ratio. I think those few bad-actors are to blame for most the current online ad-climate.
      - eru 12y ago
        Why don't you just pay for Pandora and feel good about yourself? (Interesting enough, they make more money on the ads than on a paid subscriber.) > Visual content with visual ads isn't really that different, except that some sites vastly overshoot the expected norm for the ad-inconvenience to content ratio. I think those few bad-actors are to blame for most the current online ad-climate. Yes, convenience is key. Print magazines often have around 50% ads, but they don't bother as much as on a screen.
    - Omniusaspirer 12y ago
      Thanks for the adnaseum mention, looks like it's still in a pretty early stage but it's exactly the sort of thing I've been looking for (and contemplating coding myself).
    - coldpie 12y ago
      If you have an Android tablet, AdBlock runs very well in FireFox for Android.
    - cpeterso 12y ago
      Firefox for Android supports browser add-ons, including Adblock Plus.
jodrellblank 12y ago
The limit of "really relevant ads" is automatically emptying your wallet and delivering things you "want". Even if you didn't want them until you saw the ad.
- kbenson 12y ago
  "want" is a superset of "useful/life enhancing" which is itself a superset of "need". We probably know our needs, and getting things we want but don't really help us may not be a good outcome, but discovering things that help us in our lives that we weren't aware of is definitely a good thing. I would like to see more of that.
  - jodrellblank 12y ago
    It's not necessarily a superset of useful or life enhancing; e.g. an alcoholic and alcohol. The best case for an Ad vendor is if they can convert you into a productoholic, trigger your desire, and then satiate it. "ad mortem", as it were. Ad vendors don't want the best for you. They want the most profitable for them. When everything is terrible, improved ads could be good for both - they profit from things you were going to buy anyway. At any other time, discerning individual nuances of your life is difficult and intensive, blanket trying to change what you want instead is much cheaper.
    - kbenson 12y ago
      > It's not necessarily a superset of useful or life enhancing; e.g. an alcoholic and alcohol. Sure it is. "Want" is a superset in that it contains useful/life enhancing things as well as other things that are not that. > The best case for an Ad vendor is if they can convert you into a productoholic, trigger your desire, and then satiate it. "ad mortem", as it were. The best case for an ad vendor is to maximize profit from you while minimizing negative outcomes to themselves in doing so. Whether that is maximizing profit over the short term or a longer term, and whether some methods produce more negative outcomes for them (such as public displeasure and possible resulting legislation) is really their decision to make, but I don't think a model as simplistic as what you proposed really covers the reality of the situation. I'm sure mine isn't all that much better though.

rrtulsa 12y ago

I am much more complex than my search history- I find that "relevance" to me can depend on things as diverse as my current mood. I too am torn because I know that increased relevance means I am giving away more and more of myself- I'm pretty sure that G has no limits in this pursuit of "relevance."

derekp7 12y ago
I hate this so much -- I'll search for some topic, and start getting ads all over the internet related to that topic. Case in point -- a few weeks ago I clicked on an article regarding "Computer Scientist Barbie", and clicked through the Amazon link. Guess how many Barbie advertisements I'm getting now.
- dorfsmay 12y ago
  Use browser profiles (default in chrome, add multifox in firefox), and delete all cookies regularly on your default profile.
- toddkaufmann 12y ago
  Why are you getting ads ? Install adblock and/or ghostery. Fewer distractions, fewer cycles going to adware. I don't see ads in search results or gmail, and not a lot of other places either. Noticeably different on a tablet though, where it doesn't run. At the other extreme is adnauseum, which clicks on every ad link in the background (so you don't have to).
  - kbenson 12y ago
    I don't know about the above commenter, but I have a complex relationship with ads and adblock. I installed it to get around some particularly nauseating behavior of some sites long ago, and largely forgot about it and browsed blissfully unaware of how much it was helping. Then I realized that someone else's Pandora was playing ads, and mine wasn't, it just plays song after song. I felt rather bad about that. This is a well established transactional structure which we are all used to on the radio, songs interspersed with the occasional ad to generate revenue. I feel like I've been stealing from Pandora for a few months now, especially because I've been on the cusp of paying for it for a few months even without the ads. Visual content with visual ads isn't really that different, except that some sites vastly overshoot the expected norm for the ad-inconvenience to content ratio. I think those few bad-actors are to blame for most the current online ad-climate.
    - eru 12y ago
      Why don't you just pay for Pandora and feel good about yourself? (Interesting enough, they make more money on the ads than on a paid subscriber.) > Visual content with visual ads isn't really that different, except that some sites vastly overshoot the expected norm for the ad-inconvenience to content ratio. I think those few bad-actors are to blame for most the current online ad-climate. Yes, convenience is key. Print magazines often have around 50% ads, but they don't bother as much as on a screen.
  - Omniusaspirer 12y ago
    Thanks for the adnaseum mention, looks like it's still in a pretty early stage but it's exactly the sort of thing I've been looking for (and contemplating coding myself).
  - coldpie 12y ago
    If you have an Android tablet, AdBlock runs very well in FireFox for Android.
  - cpeterso 12y ago
    Firefox for Android supports browser add-ons, including Adblock Plus.

jodrellblank 12y ago

The limit of "really relevant ads" is automatically emptying your wallet and delivering things you "want". Even if you didn't want them until you saw the ad.

kbenson 12y ago
"want" is a superset of "useful/life enhancing" which is itself a superset of "need". We probably know our needs, and getting things we want but don't really help us may not be a good outcome, but discovering things that help us in our lives that we weren't aware of is definitely a good thing. I would like to see more of that.
- jodrellblank 12y ago
  It's not necessarily a superset of useful or life enhancing; e.g. an alcoholic and alcohol. The best case for an Ad vendor is if they can convert you into a productoholic, trigger your desire, and then satiate it. "ad mortem", as it were. Ad vendors don't want the best for you. They want the most profitable for them. When everything is terrible, improved ads could be good for both - they profit from things you were going to buy anyway. At any other time, discerning individual nuances of your life is difficult and intensive, blanket trying to change what you want instead is much cheaper.
  - kbenson 12y ago
    > It's not necessarily a superset of useful or life enhancing; e.g. an alcoholic and alcohol. Sure it is. "Want" is a superset in that it contains useful/life enhancing things as well as other things that are not that. > The best case for an Ad vendor is if they can convert you into a productoholic, trigger your desire, and then satiate it. "ad mortem", as it were. The best case for an ad vendor is to maximize profit from you while minimizing negative outcomes to themselves in doing so. Whether that is maximizing profit over the short term or a longer term, and whether some methods produce more negative outcomes for them (such as public displeasure and possible resulting legislation) is really their decision to make, but I don't think a model as simplistic as what you proposed really covers the reality of the situation. I'm sure mine isn't all that much better though.