3 ms·

>While DRM didn't prevent it then and doesn't prevent it now. Current generation console games are pretty well protected with their DRM and sell much better th

>While DRM didn't prevent it then and doesn't prevent it now. Current generation console games are pretty well protected with their DRM and sell much better than their PC ports. Care to explain how it works with the theory that the DRM kills sales and gets cracked immediately?

shmerl 12y ago
Console games aren't "protected" by DRM, they are "protected" with reducing their portability. And those companies (like Nintendo) try to attack those who produce emulators. I.e. they want to control how you use the product. It's not about piracy, it's about their desire for control. When Geohot tried to distribute tools to strip DRM from PlayStation, Sony was all rage and sued him. As I said, DRM is about control freaks trying to shape the industry with corrupted laws, not about any piracy or the like.
- pandaman 12y ago
  Sorry, I understand you rage, but I don't see an answer to my question. On the other hand, an angry outburst is a kind of answer too. I assume your theory failed here.
  - shmerl 12y ago
    The answer to your question is, that DRM doesn't help console games in the least. It helps some companies like Sony to control the market with lock-in and restrict what users can do using corrupted laws. DRM itself can be broken and will be broken as the practice shows.
    - pandaman 12y ago
      I never said it helps. I asked how you reconcile the believe that DRM hurts sales with the better sales on the system with uncracked DRM. If you consider much smaller installed base and much higher price the console sales are even more amazing.
      - shmerl 12y ago
        I'm not sure what you mean by better sales. Some cross platform games which sell better on consoles than let's say on PCs? And why would you think that DRM is the reason for that? A lot of such games have poor quality on PCs, and more focused on console UX, or there can be tons of other factors which affect it. Also console manufacturers cultivate lock-in approach and push for exclusives rather than preferring cross platform games. So sales numbers aren't indicating normal competition.
        pandaman 12y ago
        As I said, I am not saying the DRM is the reason. Though I suspect it helps. When people cannot steal things they want - they do buy them. Not everyone, but there seem to be enough such people. >A lot of such games have poor quality on PCs, and more focused on console UX, or there can be tons of other factors which affect it. Sure. But games like COD are pretty well done on PC as well. Yet they sell a small fraction on PC even compared to a single platform. You seem to be very sure the DRM reduces sales so should not it be a slum dunk for you here? A system with a strong DRM vs a system where a "strong" DRM means a crack will come out in a month. Where sales will suffer? Where do they actually suffer? It's not some rocket science, the numbers get published every once in a while and everyone who ever shipped a multiplatform title knows them as well. >Also console manufacturers cultivate lock-in approach and push for exclusives rather than preferring cross platform games. Obviously I am not asking about exclusive games. Exclusive games do not get PC ports, do they?
        shmerl 12y ago
        > When people cannot steal things they want - they do buy them. Not everyone, but there seem to be enough such people Or may be those people don't want to buy them, but if they get it for free from pirates, they infringe. And if they don't get it, they ignore it. So far I didn't see any studies which showed that DRM increases sales. But I saw studies to the opposite however. > Yet they sell a small fraction on PC even compared to a single platform. Because gaming platforms were unnaturally shifted to consoles by MS and the like? They tried to kill PC gaming market on purpose (consoles give them more monopolistic control). So disproportional amount of console gamers is not surprising. I suspect it has much bigger impact on sales numbers than any DRM can have in either direction.

shmerl 12y ago

Console games aren't "protected" by DRM, they are "protected" with reducing their portability. And those companies (like Nintendo) try to attack those who produce emulators. I.e. they want to control how you use the product. It's not about piracy, it's about their desire for control. When Geohot tried to distribute tools to strip DRM from PlayStation, Sony was all rage and sued him. As I said, DRM is about control freaks trying to shape the industry with corrupted laws, not about any piracy or the like.

pandaman 12y ago
Sorry, I understand you rage, but I don't see an answer to my question. On the other hand, an angry outburst is a kind of answer too. I assume your theory failed here.
- shmerl 12y ago
  The answer to your question is, that DRM doesn't help console games in the least. It helps some companies like Sony to control the market with lock-in and restrict what users can do using corrupted laws. DRM itself can be broken and will be broken as the practice shows.
  - pandaman 12y ago
    I never said it helps. I asked how you reconcile the believe that DRM hurts sales with the better sales on the system with uncracked DRM. If you consider much smaller installed base and much higher price the console sales are even more amazing.
    - shmerl 12y ago
      I'm not sure what you mean by better sales. Some cross platform games which sell better on consoles than let's say on PCs? And why would you think that DRM is the reason for that? A lot of such games have poor quality on PCs, and more focused on console UX, or there can be tons of other factors which affect it. Also console manufacturers cultivate lock-in approach and push for exclusives rather than preferring cross platform games. So sales numbers aren't indicating normal competition.
      - pandaman 12y ago
        As I said, I am not saying the DRM is the reason. Though I suspect it helps. When people cannot steal things they want - they do buy them. Not everyone, but there seem to be enough such people. >A lot of such games have poor quality on PCs, and more focused on console UX, or there can be tons of other factors which affect it. Sure. But games like COD are pretty well done on PC as well. Yet they sell a small fraction on PC even compared to a single platform. You seem to be very sure the DRM reduces sales so should not it be a slum dunk for you here? A system with a strong DRM vs a system where a "strong" DRM means a crack will come out in a month. Where sales will suffer? Where do they actually suffer? It's not some rocket science, the numbers get published every once in a while and everyone who ever shipped a multiplatform title knows them as well. >Also console manufacturers cultivate lock-in approach and push for exclusives rather than preferring cross platform games. Obviously I am not asking about exclusive games. Exclusive games do not get PC ports, do they?
        shmerl 12y ago
        > When people cannot steal things they want - they do buy them. Not everyone, but there seem to be enough such people Or may be those people don't want to buy them, but if they get it for free from pirates, they infringe. And if they don't get it, they ignore it. So far I didn't see any studies which showed that DRM increases sales. But I saw studies to the opposite however. > Yet they sell a small fraction on PC even compared to a single platform. Because gaming platforms were unnaturally shifted to consoles by MS and the like? They tried to kill PC gaming market on purpose (consoles give them more monopolistic control). So disproportional amount of console gamers is not surprising. I suspect it has much bigger impact on sales numbers than any DRM can have in either direction.