6 ms·

Microsoft is building a new browser as part of its Windows 10 push

61 points by msoad 12y ago

jarsin 12y ago
I hope by "lightweight" they mean that the new browser will not be tied to specific windows releases anymore and it can update to the latest version independent of users having to upgrade their entire os.. wishful thinking :)
- bri3d 12y ago
  Making the browser less tied to the OS would actually make it "heavier" by pulling technology out of the OS and into the browser. The obvious example is Direct2D/DirectWrite, the very reason why IE10 doesn't work on Windows XP. Firefox "solved" this problem by having tons of pluggable OS-specific pieces, resulting in a whole morass of confusion and inconsistency which Microsoft are probably trying to avoid. As an example, many Linux users from 2009 will recall disabling Pango to try to make their Firefox run faster.
  - TD-Linux 12y ago
    Firefox also has to run its CI tests on all sorts of combinations of hardware and operating system: https://treeherder.mozilla.org/#/jobs?repo=mozilla-central https://treeherder.mozilla.org/#/jobs?repo=mozilla-central By limiting to the newest OS, Microsoft can much more easily do quality control - of course, at the cost of shutting out many users.
- arenaninja 12y ago
  This, so much... Windows already forces so many updates, what's one more? As long as it doesn't take two hours to install, it would go a long way to help the perception of Microsoft's browser
- ksk 12y ago
  >wishful thinking :) yeah :) I doubt people update their browsers any more than they update their OS.
pdknsk 12y ago
I'm sure it will be, but if it's not open-source (and hence cross-platform) they might as well not bother. I'm not downloading a 4GB VM from modern.ie to try it.
- msoad 12y ago
  I hope they make it cross platform too. If they do a good job making a browser I don't mind using it as my default browser
- goops 12y ago
  I'm not sure you understand Microsoft's business model.
  - bbcbasic 12y ago
    Their business model is slowly getting disrupted to shit, and they need to keep up. Probably too late for them on the browser front. They are unlikely to make something better than Chrome/FF.
01Michael10 12y ago
Cross platform? I don't believe it but it would be a smart move by Microsoft. Firefox is my browser because I can use it on any of my devices (Android, Linux, and Windows) and sync them. Mozilla respecting my privacy and promoting an open Internet is also a biggie for me. Sorry MS, I stopped using IE like during the XP years...
- TylerH 12y ago
  If you stopped using Internet Explorer when IE6 was the latest version, then you really don't have any right to talk about the browser as it stands now, let alone a modern, ground-up rebuild.
  - singingfish 12y ago
    Yeah modern version of IE have certainly caused me numerous headaches over the years. Mark as avoid and run away (with the help of polyfills).
  - maxmcd 12y ago
    Yeah he does. If IE falls through on his two main must-have features then it doesn't matter how familiar he is with the other features it might offer.
    - 01Michael10 12y ago
      Thanks maxmcd for pointing out the obvious point of my comment for the others. :-)
  - Retra 12y ago
    You don't have to use something to understand it. That's one of the great benefits of having a brain: you can learn from other people's mistakes. You don't have to shoot yourself in the foot to know gun safety either.
    - tuananh 12y ago
      sometimes you just have to see it for yourself. don't take information blindly.
vaadu 12y ago
Will it need or run ActiveX controls?
goops 12y ago
So it's using Trident and Chakra, the same document engine and JS engine as IE. It's also Windows-only (?). I don't see how this is a new lightweight browser. It looks like a new skin on the old one with a PR push to back it up.
- _wmd 12y ago
  You could have said the same for the initial releases of Chrome and Firefox
  - factorialboy 12y ago
    How exactly?
    - code_duck 12y ago
      Fire fox was a new browser built around Mozilla components. Chrome was a new browser built around WebKit. So, it's similar if they are replacing the interface components. However, not similar in that those browsers were made by different groups while this one is still made by Microsoft like the last 10 versions of Internet Explorer.
      - jaredsohn 12y ago
        >in that those browsers were made by different groups Is that the case for Firefox? I had thought it was just a side project by some Mozilla engineers.
        jarcane 12y ago
        Yes. Initially FF was just a side project to release the Mozilla browser component as a standalone app, just like Thunderbird was.
steven777400 12y ago
I'd be more concerned about "Windows 10 (at least the desktop version) will ship with both Spartan and IE 11". That seems reminiscent of the Windows 8 modern UI browser vs desktop browser having separate current tabs and different supported features. Very confusing for users.
- Sanddancer 12y ago
  It could very well be that spartan's the default browser that people see, but IE11's there as an option for people who need backwards compatibility with the classic ie ecosystem.
forgotAgain 12y ago
To enable coding multi-platform extensions in C# with Visual Studio?
- blumkvist 12y ago
  Ta-daa-a :)
aruggirello 12y ago
> Windows 10 (at least the desktop version) will ship with both Spartan and IE 11, my sources say. IE 11 will be there for backward-compatibility's sake Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't last sentence imply IE's going to be abandoned?
Touche 12y ago
So it sounds like they are just renaming Internet Explorer. Nothing to see here. What would be compelling is if it was open-source.
- tdicola 12y ago
  Is it even that compelling if it's open source? I'd rather it just be based on WebKit and contribute back to that project.
  - deeringc 12y ago
    I'm not sure a webkit monoculture is good for the web in the long run. Having multiple browser engines compete is a really positive thing, as long as they are all going for standards compliance. Thankfully, even Microsoft have made huge moves in the right direction on that front.
    - kansface 12y ago
      Renderers are one place where I wouldn't mind a monoculture. I'm guessing billions?! of dollars of wasted man hours have been spent on making websites look the same across browsers.
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]
  - Touche 12y ago
    Why? Trident is a good rendering engine, I'm glad it exists. But if it were open-source that would be even better.
  - davidgerard 12y ago
    "what the fuck is IE doing that for ... ohhhhh, that's what's going on here"
- based2 12y ago
  required http://www.cvedetails.com/product/9900/Microsoft-Internet-Explorer.html?vendor_id=26 http://www.cvedetails.com/product/9900/Microsoft-Internet-Ex...
kylequest 12y ago
They started in Windows 8... with the Metro Browser (what you use in the new metro UI shell. if you are curious to see a fake metro browser PoC I created a while ago: http://evilmetro.heroku.com http://evilmetro.heroku.com ). Looks like the next step in that project.
bbcbasic 12y ago
Can't say I am that excited. Why don't they build something that is better than FF/Chrome, not just play catch up?
sudioStudio64 12y ago
The thing that would be interesting here is a browser that doesn't have to support internet explorer's backwards compatibility problems. That covers more than just the css quirks... A new browser would be able to take advantage of the new security model in "metro" apps that can't really be used by IE and still support all their app compat scenarios. A new browser could be standards compliant and incredibly locked down.
- vezycash 12y ago
  This i believe is the point of creating a new browser. Here are things I hope they borrow heavily from Chrome: 1. Very short (uncluttered) "right click" menu 2. Simple setting menu - with search 3. One-click uninstall of extensions One thing not in chrome I'll kill for is the ability to set HTML5 videos and audios as "click to play."
fiatjaf 12y ago
They should be building a new Operating System, but a new browser is fine, too.

61 points by msoad 12y ago

I hope by "lightweight" they mean that the new browser will not be tied to specific windows releases anymore and it can update to the latest version independent of users having to upgrade their entire os.. wishful thinking :)

bri3d 12y ago
Making the browser less tied to the OS would actually make it "heavier" by pulling technology out of the OS and into the browser. The obvious example is Direct2D/DirectWrite, the very reason why IE10 doesn't work on Windows XP. Firefox "solved" this problem by having tons of pluggable OS-specific pieces, resulting in a whole morass of confusion and inconsistency which Microsoft are probably trying to avoid. As an example, many Linux users from 2009 will recall disabling Pango to try to make their Firefox run faster.
- TD-Linux 12y ago
  Firefox also has to run its CI tests on all sorts of combinations of hardware and operating system: https://treeherder.mozilla.org/#/jobs?repo=mozilla-central https://treeherder.mozilla.org/#/jobs?repo=mozilla-central By limiting to the newest OS, Microsoft can much more easily do quality control - of course, at the cost of shutting out many users.
arenaninja 12y ago
This, so much... Windows already forces so many updates, what's one more? As long as it doesn't take two hours to install, it would go a long way to help the perception of Microsoft's browser
ksk 12y ago
>wishful thinking :) yeah :) I doubt people update their browsers any more than they update their OS.

pdknsk 12y ago

I'm sure it will be, but if it's not open-source (and hence cross-platform) they might as well not bother. I'm not downloading a 4GB VM from modern.ie to try it.

msoad 12y ago
I hope they make it cross platform too. If they do a good job making a browser I don't mind using it as my default browser
goops 12y ago
I'm not sure you understand Microsoft's business model.
- bbcbasic 12y ago
  Their business model is slowly getting disrupted to shit, and they need to keep up. Probably too late for them on the browser front. They are unlikely to make something better than Chrome/FF.

01Michael10 12y ago

Cross platform? I don't believe it but it would be a smart move by Microsoft. Firefox is my browser because I can use it on any of my devices (Android, Linux, and Windows) and sync them. Mozilla respecting my privacy and promoting an open Internet is also a biggie for me. Sorry MS, I stopped using IE like during the XP years...

TylerH 12y ago
If you stopped using Internet Explorer when IE6 was the latest version, then you really don't have any right to talk about the browser as it stands now, let alone a modern, ground-up rebuild.
- singingfish 12y ago
  Yeah modern version of IE have certainly caused me numerous headaches over the years. Mark as avoid and run away (with the help of polyfills).
- maxmcd 12y ago
  Yeah he does. If IE falls through on his two main must-have features then it doesn't matter how familiar he is with the other features it might offer.
  - 01Michael10 12y ago
    Thanks maxmcd for pointing out the obvious point of my comment for the others. :-)
- Retra 12y ago
  You don't have to use something to understand it. That's one of the great benefits of having a brain: you can learn from other people's mistakes. You don't have to shoot yourself in the foot to know gun safety either.
  - tuananh 12y ago
    sometimes you just have to see it for yourself. don't take information blindly.

vaadu 12y ago

Will it need or run ActiveX controls?

goops 12y ago

So it's using Trident and Chakra, the same document engine and JS engine as IE. It's also Windows-only (?). I don't see how this is a new lightweight browser. It looks like a new skin on the old one with a PR push to back it up.

_wmd 12y ago
You could have said the same for the initial releases of Chrome and Firefox
- factorialboy 12y ago
  How exactly?
  - code_duck 12y ago
    Fire fox was a new browser built around Mozilla components. Chrome was a new browser built around WebKit. So, it's similar if they are replacing the interface components. However, not similar in that those browsers were made by different groups while this one is still made by Microsoft like the last 10 versions of Internet Explorer.
    - jaredsohn 12y ago
      >in that those browsers were made by different groups Is that the case for Firefox? I had thought it was just a side project by some Mozilla engineers.
      - jarcane 12y ago
        Yes. Initially FF was just a side project to release the Mozilla browser component as a standalone app, just like Thunderbird was.

steven777400 12y ago

I'd be more concerned about "Windows 10 (at least the desktop version) will ship with both Spartan and IE 11". That seems reminiscent of the Windows 8 modern UI browser vs desktop browser having separate current tabs and different supported features. Very confusing for users.

Sanddancer 12y ago
It could very well be that spartan's the default browser that people see, but IE11's there as an option for people who need backwards compatibility with the classic ie ecosystem.

forgotAgain 12y ago

To enable coding multi-platform extensions in C# with Visual Studio?

blumkvist 12y ago
Ta-daa-a :)

aruggirello 12y ago

> Windows 10 (at least the desktop version) will ship with both Spartan and IE 11, my sources say. IE 11 will be there for backward-compatibility's sake Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't last sentence imply IE's going to be abandoned?

Touche 12y ago

So it sounds like they are just renaming Internet Explorer. Nothing to see here. What would be compelling is if it was open-source.

tdicola 12y ago
Is it even that compelling if it's open source? I'd rather it just be based on WebKit and contribute back to that project.
- deeringc 12y ago
  I'm not sure a webkit monoculture is good for the web in the long run. Having multiple browser engines compete is a really positive thing, as long as they are all going for standards compliance. Thankfully, even Microsoft have made huge moves in the right direction on that front.
  - kansface 12y ago
    Renderers are one place where I wouldn't mind a monoculture. I'm guessing billions?! of dollars of wasted man hours have been spent on making websites look the same across browsers.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- Touche 12y ago
  Why? Trident is a good rendering engine, I'm glad it exists. But if it were open-source that would be even better.
- davidgerard 12y ago
  "what the fuck is IE doing that for ... ohhhhh, that's what's going on here"
based2 12y ago
required http://www.cvedetails.com/product/9900/Microsoft-Internet-Explorer.html?vendor_id=26 http://www.cvedetails.com/product/9900/Microsoft-Internet-Ex...

kylequest 12y ago

They started in Windows 8... with the Metro Browser (what you use in the new metro UI shell. if you are curious to see a fake metro browser PoC I created a while ago: http://evilmetro.heroku.com http://evilmetro.heroku.com ). Looks like the next step in that project.

bbcbasic 12y ago

Can't say I am that excited. Why don't they build something that is better than FF/Chrome, not just play catch up?

sudioStudio64 12y ago

The thing that would be interesting here is a browser that doesn't have to support internet explorer's backwards compatibility problems. That covers more than just the css quirks... A new browser would be able to take advantage of the new security model in "metro" apps that can't really be used by IE and still support all their app compat scenarios. A new browser could be standards compliant and incredibly locked down.

vezycash 12y ago
This i believe is the point of creating a new browser. Here are things I hope they borrow heavily from Chrome: 1. Very short (uncluttered) "right click" menu 2. Simple setting menu - with search 3. One-click uninstall of extensions One thing not in chrome I'll kill for is the ability to set HTML5 videos and audios as "click to play."

fiatjaf 12y ago

They should be building a new Operating System, but a new browser is fine, too.