5 ms·

Certainly Haskell, for example, is one of the few languages richly endowed with a non-existent module system, but I personally don't know of a distributed compu

Certainly Haskell, for example, is one of the few languages richly endowed with a non-existent module system, but I personally don't know of a distributed computing environment that does preserve types across machine boundaries in any language. I must be missing something, please enlighten. If type preservation in distributed computing was a trivial engineering problem it would have already been solved and widely used. As it stands Akka is enjoying fairly widespread enterprise adoption in the distributed computing market, untyped-ness notwithstanding. Interestingly, as saryant points out, Akka 3.0 apparently will be typed, although I was under the impression that the typed actor project was experimental/a long way off/not a sure thing. Guess things have changed for the better...

saryant 12y ago
I don't think the typed actors in 3.0 are related to the old typed actors feature. It's still in a state of flux but there's a very preliminary preview in Roland Kuhn's github repo.
tel 12y ago
I'm not claiming it's a solved problem; I'm claiming that the current solutions are lacking. You can take it as standing on the outside and throwing stones, but it's not malicious. I want something better.
- virtualwhys 12y ago
  Yeah, I know, same deal with type safe database query DSLs, none have hit the mark yet, including M$'s Linq to Sql, Scala's Slick, Haskell's Esqueleto and Opaleye, etc. Seems we're on the brink of a completely type safe distributed stack, but argghingly not quite there. Maybe in another couple of years the computing community will have turned the corner. FWIW, from the outside looking in Haskell seems to be kicking ass in terms of language evolution (7.8 and 7.10 in particular). Here on the Scala side of the fence we've got a ways to go, probably 4 years or so until the dust settles with various compiler forks and research work brings a (hopefully) vastly improved Scala into being.
  - tel 12y ago
    Yeah! I want to see an EDSL impl of a nicely typed Tutorial D sometime already! Personally, I don't know that I care about the distributed part of the stack. I want something like Erlang's actor model in Haskell even on one machine. I think if there was a nicely typed way to do that (and see pipes-concurrent and mvc for nice examples) there'd be some fantastic "large scale" application operating space that would get opened up. Akka does this somewhat below par with Erlang. I'd wonder if a GHC implementation of straightforward single machine Erlang's semantics could do better with typed effects and true asynchronous exceptions. This would be nice even with just effect typing (e.g. untyped channels and lots of living in some IO-alike) and could be a good interpreter target for simpler strongly-typed organizational designs. I started fiddling with this (under the name hotep) a few months ago and got sidetracked but it keeps coming up!
  - tome 12y ago
    I would be interested in what you think is missing from Opaleye. Of course there is plenty of Postgres functionality that hasn't been ported across yet, but I'm wondering what you think is missing conceptually.

saryant 12y ago

I don't think the typed actors in 3.0 are related to the old typed actors feature. It's still in a state of flux but there's a very preliminary preview in Roland Kuhn's github repo.

tel 12y ago

I'm not claiming it's a solved problem; I'm claiming that the current solutions are lacking. You can take it as standing on the outside and throwing stones, but it's not malicious. I want something better.

virtualwhys 12y ago
Yeah, I know, same deal with type safe database query DSLs, none have hit the mark yet, including M$'s Linq to Sql, Scala's Slick, Haskell's Esqueleto and Opaleye, etc. Seems we're on the brink of a completely type safe distributed stack, but argghingly not quite there. Maybe in another couple of years the computing community will have turned the corner. FWIW, from the outside looking in Haskell seems to be kicking ass in terms of language evolution (7.8 and 7.10 in particular). Here on the Scala side of the fence we've got a ways to go, probably 4 years or so until the dust settles with various compiler forks and research work brings a (hopefully) vastly improved Scala into being.
- tel 12y ago
  Yeah! I want to see an EDSL impl of a nicely typed Tutorial D sometime already! Personally, I don't know that I care about the distributed part of the stack. I want something like Erlang's actor model in Haskell even on one machine. I think if there was a nicely typed way to do that (and see pipes-concurrent and mvc for nice examples) there'd be some fantastic "large scale" application operating space that would get opened up. Akka does this somewhat below par with Erlang. I'd wonder if a GHC implementation of straightforward single machine Erlang's semantics could do better with typed effects and true asynchronous exceptions. This would be nice even with just effect typing (e.g. untyped channels and lots of living in some IO-alike) and could be a good interpreter target for simpler strongly-typed organizational designs. I started fiddling with this (under the name hotep) a few months ago and got sidetracked but it keeps coming up!
- tome 12y ago
  I would be interested in what you think is missing from Opaleye. Of course there is plenty of Postgres functionality that hasn't been ported across yet, but I'm wondering what you think is missing conceptually.