9 ms·

Travelling in China right now. No Google services work but Gmail via SMTP on my iPhone seems fine. I'm not confident all emails go through though. Heading to Ho

Travelling in China right now. No Google services work but Gmail via SMTP on my iPhone seems fine. I'm not confident all emails go through though. Heading to Hong Kong tonight so not sure if that will be different. Using VPN does open everything but obviously becomes slower. It's not only Google though, all social media. Speaking to locals they don't care. There is an alternative for everything and they are better suited to Chinese culture too.

crishoj 12y ago
In my experience, internet access in Hong Kong is completely separate, and not restricted by the "Great Firewall".
- TazeTSchnitzel 12y ago
  One Country, Two Systems
WhitneyLand 12y ago
>>Speaking to locals they don't care Locals don't care that they can't use certain American sites, or don't care that they are intellectually oppressed?
- dengnan 12y ago
  We do care. The problem is: What can we do? Using technical method to get through GFW? Well, it works now but technically, Chinese government controls all Internet facility and they do not even care to block thousands of IPs, even if it means block the whole Internet (It happened in Xinjiang and Tibet.) Moreover, ISPs constantly throttle the international data which means connecting to a server outside GFW may be very slow or even randomly disconnected. In short, any technical solution does not work on a government who controls the country's Internet facilities and does not care to pull the plug. Other solutions? You cannot turn to traditional media like newspapers and TVs, because they are, as well, controlled by the government, which is in turn controlled by a single party. There's also no way to make any meaningful non-violence political influence. The government is not voted by the people so they just don't care whatever their people say. The only possible way is to use violence, but we do not have guns.
  - chinathrow 12y ago
    "The only possible way is to use violence, but we do not have guns." Well, there's a few options left, no?
  - LiweiZ 12y ago
    I agree with most of what you said. However, violence can only break the status quo. It does not necessarily lead to a better place, even we do not count the expected ugly process before that. The best ruling party can do is to strengthen the current deadlock. Yes, it is a deadlock. Given our lifespan, there is little light I can see. When the cheap labor margin exhausted, the end game begins. As natives, we know best that what competitive advantages we left except cheap labor. Oh, someone must point out the dynamic domestic market. By that time, it should be pretty much dead already. Those big market caps will totally gone.
  - interdrift 12y ago
    Ummm...fight for your rights?
    - CamperBob2 12y ago
      Interestingly, "fighting for your rights" seems to be one of those things that works only when a small minority is doing the fighting. For instance, the American revolution was instigated and conducted by a few discontented landholders, without seeking permission or widespread acceptance from the broader population. If the means for widespread democratic input had existed in the years leading up to 1776, would Washington have been able to mobilize successfully? Or would the mainstream media have been co-opted by the British to proclaim him a "radical dissident" or a "terrorist," hopelessly marginalizing the revolutionaries? That's the problem that any would-be Chinese or Russian revolutionary faces. Earlier revolutions could be conducted with the involvement of only 10-15% of the population, but these days, you can't do much to change things even with 80% of the population behind you.
- simonh 12y ago
  The Chinese have never really had freedom, so they've nothing to compare it to. Even if they did, people are doing well over there right now. Any realistic attempt at political change insitgated from outside the political elite would introduce instability and risk for uncertain benefits. As long as China is economically improving there's no real impetus for change. The only protests you get are from those small minorities that are losing out, and that tends to be temporary and/or local instances that are disconnected from one another.
  - tokenadult 12y ago
    That kind of "rationale" for not having democracy in Taiwan used to be convincing, until finally enough people there were fed up with not having freedom and protested in unison to gain freedom. For that matter, that kind of "rationale" used to be convincing in east Germany, until people there realized that if they acted in unison they could improve their lives still more by gaining freedom. I'm not sure when enough of the masses in China will act in unison at the same time to change the system, and for sure the current ruling Communist Party of China tries to prevent any such united action, but I wouldn't characterize people dissatisfied with the current system as a "small minority," as they probably already make up a majority of the rural population, which in turn is a majority of the population of the whole country.
    - simonh 12y ago
      Sure. Of course the situation could change. I hope it does. But right now people do not care enough to do anything about it, just like people before those other revolutions didn't (yet) care enough. When will that change though, tomorrow? Next year? Next decade? I have no idea, all I can do is relate what I know of the situation over there as I have experienced it.
- LiweiZ 12y ago
  Just let you know that weight for English as a lesson for students for a long time has been reduced in the curriculum these years. I hated learning English when I was a student. But without it, you have less access to the information and knowledge. It's all about controlling what's in people's mind and feed them with some other stimulations. Intellectually oppressed? I think its priority among average people, even in the developed nations, is not that high.
- DenisM 12y ago
  Power of any government starts with popular support. If you could convince just one fellow countryman that more freedom would make his live better, would make him better, that will be one less pillar for the oppression, and one more for the freedom. It's a daunting task, but it's the only reliable way - persuasion. I wouldn't fault you for giving up and moving elsewhere, just know that there is an option before you do.
hibbelig 12y ago
My understanding is the locals mostly want to earn good money and have a reasonable life. And it's dangerous to care about the Greate Firewall. So they prefer to look the other way. Of course, this way it's only going to get worse over time.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
jorgecastillo 12y ago
>There is an alternative for everything and they are better suited to Chinese culture too. Well good for them, either way with this policy the Chinese government enforces, I don't think China will be able to compete internationally in the software industry.
- unixpunx 12y ago
  > I don't think China will be able to compete internationally in the software industry. That is a very self-centered point of view, in recent european TED talks there were speakers like Mikko Hypponen from F-Secure, that there should be "european" versions of Google, Facebook, so we can avoid all the dragnet datamining etc. unethical web development solutions and NSA spying that somehow pass in the US.
  - twoodfin 12y ago
    If such products are created and succeed, it will be because they competed well with their American counterparts. The equivalent Chinese products don't face any competition at all.
    - ximeng 12y ago
      Chinese companies will push to internationalise their products as the domestic internet market becomes saturated
      - raverbashing 12y ago
        Depends on how behind they are and how quickly they can adapt to western needs
        ximeng 12y ago
        http://www.fastcompany.com/3029119/most-innovative-companies/tencent-the-secretive-chinese-tech-giant-that-can-rival-facebook-a#chapter-Business_Competition_and_Government_Cooperation http://www.fastcompany.com/3029119/most-innovative-companies... Bear in mind that it won't just be Western markets they target.
edwinyzh 12y ago
"They don't care??!!" There are 1.3 billion Chinese and half of them use the Internet, how many locals you have spoken with? I live in China and am in the IT industry, I know there are a lot people quit using Gmail because the ban, not to say Google Search.
- interdrift 12y ago
  This is just ridicilous.Why would they do that?
sirkneeland 12y ago
Are you using a non-Chinese SIM? In my past travels to China I was able to access Facebook and everything else as long as I was roaming on my AT&T SIM and paying gratuitous roaming fees.

crishoj 12y ago

In my experience, internet access in Hong Kong is completely separate, and not restricted by the "Great Firewall".

TazeTSchnitzel 12y ago
One Country, Two Systems

WhitneyLand 12y ago

>>Speaking to locals they don't care Locals don't care that they can't use certain American sites, or don't care that they are intellectually oppressed?

dengnan 12y ago
We do care. The problem is: What can we do? Using technical method to get through GFW? Well, it works now but technically, Chinese government controls all Internet facility and they do not even care to block thousands of IPs, even if it means block the whole Internet (It happened in Xinjiang and Tibet.) Moreover, ISPs constantly throttle the international data which means connecting to a server outside GFW may be very slow or even randomly disconnected. In short, any technical solution does not work on a government who controls the country's Internet facilities and does not care to pull the plug. Other solutions? You cannot turn to traditional media like newspapers and TVs, because they are, as well, controlled by the government, which is in turn controlled by a single party. There's also no way to make any meaningful non-violence political influence. The government is not voted by the people so they just don't care whatever their people say. The only possible way is to use violence, but we do not have guns.
- chinathrow 12y ago
  "The only possible way is to use violence, but we do not have guns." Well, there's a few options left, no?
- LiweiZ 12y ago
  I agree with most of what you said. However, violence can only break the status quo. It does not necessarily lead to a better place, even we do not count the expected ugly process before that. The best ruling party can do is to strengthen the current deadlock. Yes, it is a deadlock. Given our lifespan, there is little light I can see. When the cheap labor margin exhausted, the end game begins. As natives, we know best that what competitive advantages we left except cheap labor. Oh, someone must point out the dynamic domestic market. By that time, it should be pretty much dead already. Those big market caps will totally gone.
- interdrift 12y ago
  Ummm...fight for your rights?
  - CamperBob2 12y ago
    Interestingly, "fighting for your rights" seems to be one of those things that works only when a small minority is doing the fighting. For instance, the American revolution was instigated and conducted by a few discontented landholders, without seeking permission or widespread acceptance from the broader population. If the means for widespread democratic input had existed in the years leading up to 1776, would Washington have been able to mobilize successfully? Or would the mainstream media have been co-opted by the British to proclaim him a "radical dissident" or a "terrorist," hopelessly marginalizing the revolutionaries? That's the problem that any would-be Chinese or Russian revolutionary faces. Earlier revolutions could be conducted with the involvement of only 10-15% of the population, but these days, you can't do much to change things even with 80% of the population behind you.
simonh 12y ago
The Chinese have never really had freedom, so they've nothing to compare it to. Even if they did, people are doing well over there right now. Any realistic attempt at political change insitgated from outside the political elite would introduce instability and risk for uncertain benefits. As long as China is economically improving there's no real impetus for change. The only protests you get are from those small minorities that are losing out, and that tends to be temporary and/or local instances that are disconnected from one another.
- tokenadult 12y ago
  That kind of "rationale" for not having democracy in Taiwan used to be convincing, until finally enough people there were fed up with not having freedom and protested in unison to gain freedom. For that matter, that kind of "rationale" used to be convincing in east Germany, until people there realized that if they acted in unison they could improve their lives still more by gaining freedom. I'm not sure when enough of the masses in China will act in unison at the same time to change the system, and for sure the current ruling Communist Party of China tries to prevent any such united action, but I wouldn't characterize people dissatisfied with the current system as a "small minority," as they probably already make up a majority of the rural population, which in turn is a majority of the population of the whole country.
  - simonh 12y ago
    Sure. Of course the situation could change. I hope it does. But right now people do not care enough to do anything about it, just like people before those other revolutions didn't (yet) care enough. When will that change though, tomorrow? Next year? Next decade? I have no idea, all I can do is relate what I know of the situation over there as I have experienced it.
LiweiZ 12y ago
Just let you know that weight for English as a lesson for students for a long time has been reduced in the curriculum these years. I hated learning English when I was a student. But without it, you have less access to the information and knowledge. It's all about controlling what's in people's mind and feed them with some other stimulations. Intellectually oppressed? I think its priority among average people, even in the developed nations, is not that high.
DenisM 12y ago
Power of any government starts with popular support. If you could convince just one fellow countryman that more freedom would make his live better, would make him better, that will be one less pillar for the oppression, and one more for the freedom. It's a daunting task, but it's the only reliable way - persuasion. I wouldn't fault you for giving up and moving elsewhere, just know that there is an option before you do.

hibbelig 12y ago

My understanding is the locals mostly want to earn good money and have a reasonable life. And it's dangerous to care about the Greate Firewall. So they prefer to look the other way. Of course, this way it's only going to get worse over time.

deleted 12y ago
[deleted]

jorgecastillo 12y ago

>There is an alternative for everything and they are better suited to Chinese culture too. Well good for them, either way with this policy the Chinese government enforces, I don't think China will be able to compete internationally in the software industry.

unixpunx 12y ago
> I don't think China will be able to compete internationally in the software industry. That is a very self-centered point of view, in recent european TED talks there were speakers like Mikko Hypponen from F-Secure, that there should be "european" versions of Google, Facebook, so we can avoid all the dragnet datamining etc. unethical web development solutions and NSA spying that somehow pass in the US.
- twoodfin 12y ago
  If such products are created and succeed, it will be because they competed well with their American counterparts. The equivalent Chinese products don't face any competition at all.
  - ximeng 12y ago
    Chinese companies will push to internationalise their products as the domestic internet market becomes saturated
    - raverbashing 12y ago
      Depends on how behind they are and how quickly they can adapt to western needs
      - ximeng 12y ago
        http://www.fastcompany.com/3029119/most-innovative-companies/tencent-the-secretive-chinese-tech-giant-that-can-rival-facebook-a#chapter-Business_Competition_and_Government_Cooperation http://www.fastcompany.com/3029119/most-innovative-companies... Bear in mind that it won't just be Western markets they target.

edwinyzh 12y ago

"They don't care??!!" There are 1.3 billion Chinese and half of them use the Internet, how many locals you have spoken with? I live in China and am in the IT industry, I know there are a lot people quit using Gmail because the ban, not to say Google Search.

interdrift 12y ago
This is just ridicilous.Why would they do that?

sirkneeland 12y ago

Are you using a non-Chinese SIM? In my past travels to China I was able to access Facebook and everything else as long as I was roaming on my AT&T SIM and paying gratuitous roaming fees.