4 ms·

This is detailed in the article. If it were easier to go out and purchase the game than to copy it, then you'd be more willing to do so. The problem these days

This is detailed in the article. If it were easier to go out and purchase the game than to copy it, then you'd be more willing to do so. The problem these days is that it's ridiculously easy to crack DRM, so it's often useless. Back in those days, you needed specialized equipment to get a perfect copy, so you had no choice but to buy the legit game. Therefore, it did, in fact, increase sales.

shmerl 12y ago
> Back in those days, you needed specialized equipment to get a perfect copy, so you had no choice but to buy the legit game. Yet it was cracked and cracked copies were floating around all the same. DRM was stupid then, DRM is still stupid today and will always remain so. I.e. this claim: > That partially explains why they sold lots of copies! is simply false. Copies were sold not because of copy protection, but despite it. I.e. users are always annoyed by DRM, by inability to back up their games and etc. So they are less likely to buy it to begin with.
- girvo 12y ago
  > So they are less likely to buy it to begin with. You and I, perhaps, but the majority of users? I doubt it.
  - shmerl 12y ago
    There were studies which showed that DRM is likely to reduce sales. But it's rather self obvious. DRM cripples usability in some way. Worse product means less potential interest from the user. Not to mention that DRM is simply insulting, and insulting your own users sounds like a bad idea to increase sales.
    - bigbugbag 12y ago
      I'm aware of those studies and an anti-DRM proponent, but this has all to do about how it's done nowadays and whom it profits. It's not done with the user experience in mind, which is quite different with the dungeon master protection which allowed to play the game for a while (it was even possible to finish it with well timed saves but not see the end scene). Video games now are an industry and most come from major corporations in it for profit which means DRM are badly done, slapped on a game as an afterthought (see below why it's bad) Besides DRM are a joke for crackers while on the other hand the dungeon master protection caused much respect from the crackers of the time: What's the best job of a game crack (ST) you have ever seen? Dungeon Master. It seemed to be written in some kind of interpreted language which made it very difficult to fathom. It also had protection embedded throughout the game. Good protection is like good encryption, it can never be an afterthought, you can't buy it off the shelf, it has to be part of the fabric of the game. Apparently it had a protection check after the final boss, just so you couldn't see the end sequence. Hats off to them. Hats off to Was (Not Was) for cracking it. http://web.archive.org/web/20081121032254/http://www.dbug-automation.co.uk/interviews/atainter.htm http://web.archive.org/web/20081121032254/http://www.dbug-au...
      - AlyssaRowan 12y ago
        >some kind of interpreted language which made it very difficult to fathom Oh, Andy… It was compiled C. :-) I thought the structure was nice, actually.
- bigbugbag 12y ago
  Happy to contradict but I can witness as a pirate kid with no money that I saved over months to buy both dungeon master and its sequel, the only two games I ever bought for my atari st. I bought them because they were incredibly good games and due to them being unavailable in fully cracked version at the time. Also when you bought the game, it included a way to get a backup disk as a mail-in offer: [Al] A.HORTON I hope my question is not redundant. Three people in my home play CSB. I would love to back it up, but can't. Is there a way that key disks, doc copy protection, or code wheels could be used as copy protection? FTL Actually, we think our current protection is less hassle than a code wheel or manual based protection. Also, we do offer a backup disk as a mail-in offer. (see the front of the Manual.) http://dmweb.free.fr/?q=node/94 http://dmweb.free.fr/?q=node/94
beagle3 12y ago
> Back in those days, you needed specialized equipment to get a perfect copy, so you had no choice but to buy the legit game. Therefore, it did, in fact, increase sales. There was almost never a point in time where you needed more than perseverance. A debugger was usually enough, given enough time and determination, to strip any copy restrictions - and while the time constants have changed, it is mostly the same today. And whether or not it increased or decreased sales (even back then) is not so easy to decide. A penniless 10 year old would pirate everything but buy nothing even if it was successfully copy restricted -- due to lack of applicable resources. A gainfully employed person with something to lose would rather pay a reasonable amount than face the hassle and potential lawsuits -- although that is often predicated on getting a "taste", which an unrestricted copy (whether DRM broken or demo from download or a magazine cover) provides. Personally, I buy all music I have copies of. If I wouldn't pay money for it, I don't waste space on my hard drive.

shmerl 12y ago

> Back in those days, you needed specialized equipment to get a perfect copy, so you had no choice but to buy the legit game. Yet it was cracked and cracked copies were floating around all the same. DRM was stupid then, DRM is still stupid today and will always remain so. I.e. this claim: > That partially explains why they sold lots of copies! is simply false. Copies were sold not because of copy protection, but despite it. I.e. users are always annoyed by DRM, by inability to back up their games and etc. So they are less likely to buy it to begin with.

girvo 12y ago
> So they are less likely to buy it to begin with. You and I, perhaps, but the majority of users? I doubt it.
- shmerl 12y ago
  There were studies which showed that DRM is likely to reduce sales. But it's rather self obvious. DRM cripples usability in some way. Worse product means less potential interest from the user. Not to mention that DRM is simply insulting, and insulting your own users sounds like a bad idea to increase sales.
  - bigbugbag 12y ago
    I'm aware of those studies and an anti-DRM proponent, but this has all to do about how it's done nowadays and whom it profits. It's not done with the user experience in mind, which is quite different with the dungeon master protection which allowed to play the game for a while (it was even possible to finish it with well timed saves but not see the end scene). Video games now are an industry and most come from major corporations in it for profit which means DRM are badly done, slapped on a game as an afterthought (see below why it's bad) Besides DRM are a joke for crackers while on the other hand the dungeon master protection caused much respect from the crackers of the time: What's the best job of a game crack (ST) you have ever seen? Dungeon Master. It seemed to be written in some kind of interpreted language which made it very difficult to fathom. It also had protection embedded throughout the game. Good protection is like good encryption, it can never be an afterthought, you can't buy it off the shelf, it has to be part of the fabric of the game. Apparently it had a protection check after the final boss, just so you couldn't see the end sequence. Hats off to them. Hats off to Was (Not Was) for cracking it. http://web.archive.org/web/20081121032254/http://www.dbug-automation.co.uk/interviews/atainter.htm http://web.archive.org/web/20081121032254/http://www.dbug-au...
    - AlyssaRowan 12y ago
      >some kind of interpreted language which made it very difficult to fathom Oh, Andy… It was compiled C. :-) I thought the structure was nice, actually.
bigbugbag 12y ago
Happy to contradict but I can witness as a pirate kid with no money that I saved over months to buy both dungeon master and its sequel, the only two games I ever bought for my atari st. I bought them because they were incredibly good games and due to them being unavailable in fully cracked version at the time. Also when you bought the game, it included a way to get a backup disk as a mail-in offer: [Al] A.HORTON I hope my question is not redundant. Three people in my home play CSB. I would love to back it up, but can't. Is there a way that key disks, doc copy protection, or code wheels could be used as copy protection? FTL Actually, we think our current protection is less hassle than a code wheel or manual based protection. Also, we do offer a backup disk as a mail-in offer. (see the front of the Manual.) http://dmweb.free.fr/?q=node/94 http://dmweb.free.fr/?q=node/94

beagle3 12y ago

> Back in those days, you needed specialized equipment to get a perfect copy, so you had no choice but to buy the legit game. Therefore, it did, in fact, increase sales. There was almost never a point in time where you needed more than perseverance. A debugger was usually enough, given enough time and determination, to strip any copy restrictions - and while the time constants have changed, it is mostly the same today. And whether or not it increased or decreased sales (even back then) is not so easy to decide. A penniless 10 year old would pirate everything but buy nothing even if it was successfully copy restricted -- due to lack of applicable resources. A gainfully employed person with something to lose would rather pay a reasonable amount than face the hassle and potential lawsuits -- although that is often predicated on getting a "taste", which an unrestricted copy (whether DRM broken or demo from download or a magazine cover) provides. Personally, I buy all music I have copies of. If I wouldn't pay money for it, I don't waste space on my hard drive.