4 ms·

Enemy Aliens: The Forgotten History of World War I Internment Camps

32 points by Vigier 12y ago

WalterBright 12y ago
There are also endless documentaries on WW2, that end with the fall of Berlin. What happened after that? There's very little information available on what went on in Germany for the next year or two.
- hvs 12y ago
  I wouldn't say that there's "very little information available". There are numerous books on post-war Japan and Europe as well as countless books on the Nuremberg trials. Just because there aren't documentaries doesn't mean there isn't any information.
  - dalke 12y ago
    There are documentaries. Here's one found by searching for "post war Germany documentary" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0FM_7_drf0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0FM_7_drf0 . It doesn't avoid the raping and looting by Allied troops.
- jacquesm 12y ago
  A good source of information would be really old German ladies that lived there at the time. Not too many men from that era survive but there are still quite a few old ladies and their collective memories must hold some very valuable stories. They're in their 80's and 90's now so it's still possible to get this first hand. But it won't be possible for very long. Berlin was in ruins, the city divided up into 4 sectors, east and west increasingly more insulated from the each other.
  - eru 12y ago
    > But it won't be possible for very long. Which reminds me to talk to more people who lived through German reunification. Especially the East German dissidents and activists.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- leoc 12y ago
  /Savage Continent/ http://www.amazon.com/Savage-Continent-Europe-Aftermath-World/dp/125003356X http://www.amazon.com/Savage-Continent-Europe-Aftermath-Worl... is a popular-level book on the subject that came out recently and has been well-reviewed. (I've also read a bit of it, and it looks good.) The first episode of the BBC /History of Modern Britain/ series with Andrew Marr, "Advance Britannia", covers the UK in the 1945-1955 period, and it's very entertaining.
  - WalterBright 12y ago
    I just ordered the book. Here's a quote from one of the reviews: "This book,which comes to fill in this void," Just what I'm talking about. Thanks for the pointer.
- agilebyte 12y ago
  Well, some Germans have "returned" to Germany where they haven't lived for centuries. In Czechoslovakia, there were Beneš Decrees[1] which meant the loss of citizenship and expropriation of the property of about three million Germans and Hungarians. Particularly interesting are the legal opinions around "guilt" vs "responsibility": Together with the other European states and their governments, unable and unwilling to counter Nazi expansion from the very start, also the German nation is in the first line responsible for the inception and development of Nazism, although there were many Germans who had actively and bravely opposed it. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bene%C5%A1_decrees http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bene%C5%A1_decrees
- gumby 12y ago
  There are few documentaries in the US on this subject because they don't fit the triumphalist template of the History Channel (this sounds sarcastic but is meant earnestly) which is the main outlet for documentaries on mid 20th century history. However there is extensive literature on the subject. Tony Judt's "Postwar" is a good, recent starting point. There are many many German and French documentaries on occupied Germany, and plenty on the occupation of Japan. Perhaps you can find some in translation.
- jordanb 12y ago
  I highly recommend Year Zero by Ian Burma: http://www.amazon.com/Year-Zero-History-Notable-Adults/dp/1594204365 http://www.amazon.com/Year-Zero-History-Notable-Adults/dp/15... Here's a NYT review: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/29/books/review/year-zero-by-ian-buruma.html?pagewanted=all http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/29/books/review/year-zero-by-...
- junto 12y ago
  I read somewhere that US soldiers took or sent home 3 times the amount they had been paid. In Berlin the British were so busy profiting from the black market they pretty much forgot to do the jobs they were sent to do in trying to restart some degree of normality in Germany. Civilians starved and robbed. Women and young women were turned into prostitutes or raped. The usual post war winner stuff basically.
cafard 12y ago
There was a a good deal of inconsistency later. In WW II, a number of Americans stuck in Germany at end of 1941 were repatriated. Some I assume were men of military age. Joseph Alsop, an officer of the AVG caught in Hong Kong, managed to persuade the Japanese that he was a civilian, and was repatriated, as were a number of Americans who had been in Japan. Yet citizens of Allied countries caught in Shanghai and the Philippines spent the war in camps.

32 points by Vigier 12y ago

There are also endless documentaries on WW2, that end with the fall of Berlin. What happened after that? There's very little information available on what went on in Germany for the next year or two.

hvs 12y ago
I wouldn't say that there's "very little information available". There are numerous books on post-war Japan and Europe as well as countless books on the Nuremberg trials. Just because there aren't documentaries doesn't mean there isn't any information.
- dalke 12y ago
  There are documentaries. Here's one found by searching for "post war Germany documentary" - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0FM_7_drf0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y0FM_7_drf0 . It doesn't avoid the raping and looting by Allied troops.
jacquesm 12y ago
A good source of information would be really old German ladies that lived there at the time. Not too many men from that era survive but there are still quite a few old ladies and their collective memories must hold some very valuable stories. They're in their 80's and 90's now so it's still possible to get this first hand. But it won't be possible for very long. Berlin was in ruins, the city divided up into 4 sectors, east and west increasingly more insulated from the each other.
- eru 12y ago
  > But it won't be possible for very long. Which reminds me to talk to more people who lived through German reunification. Especially the East German dissidents and activists.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
leoc 12y ago
/Savage Continent/ http://www.amazon.com/Savage-Continent-Europe-Aftermath-World/dp/125003356X http://www.amazon.com/Savage-Continent-Europe-Aftermath-Worl... is a popular-level book on the subject that came out recently and has been well-reviewed. (I've also read a bit of it, and it looks good.) The first episode of the BBC /History of Modern Britain/ series with Andrew Marr, "Advance Britannia", covers the UK in the 1945-1955 period, and it's very entertaining.
- WalterBright 12y ago
  I just ordered the book. Here's a quote from one of the reviews: "This book,which comes to fill in this void," Just what I'm talking about. Thanks for the pointer.
agilebyte 12y ago
Well, some Germans have "returned" to Germany where they haven't lived for centuries. In Czechoslovakia, there were Beneš Decrees[1] which meant the loss of citizenship and expropriation of the property of about three million Germans and Hungarians. Particularly interesting are the legal opinions around "guilt" vs "responsibility": Together with the other European states and their governments, unable and unwilling to counter Nazi expansion from the very start, also the German nation is in the first line responsible for the inception and development of Nazism, although there were many Germans who had actively and bravely opposed it. [1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bene%C5%A1_decrees http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bene%C5%A1_decrees
gumby 12y ago
There are few documentaries in the US on this subject because they don't fit the triumphalist template of the History Channel (this sounds sarcastic but is meant earnestly) which is the main outlet for documentaries on mid 20th century history. However there is extensive literature on the subject. Tony Judt's "Postwar" is a good, recent starting point. There are many many German and French documentaries on occupied Germany, and plenty on the occupation of Japan. Perhaps you can find some in translation.
jordanb 12y ago
I highly recommend Year Zero by Ian Burma: http://www.amazon.com/Year-Zero-History-Notable-Adults/dp/1594204365 http://www.amazon.com/Year-Zero-History-Notable-Adults/dp/15... Here's a NYT review: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/29/books/review/year-zero-by-ian-buruma.html?pagewanted=all http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/29/books/review/year-zero-by-...
junto 12y ago
I read somewhere that US soldiers took or sent home 3 times the amount they had been paid. In Berlin the British were so busy profiting from the black market they pretty much forgot to do the jobs they were sent to do in trying to restart some degree of normality in Germany. Civilians starved and robbed. Women and young women were turned into prostitutes or raped. The usual post war winner stuff basically.

cafard 12y ago

There was a a good deal of inconsistency later. In WW II, a number of Americans stuck in Germany at end of 1941 were repatriated. Some I assume were men of military age. Joseph Alsop, an officer of the AVG caught in Hong Kong, managed to persuade the Japanese that he was a civilian, and was repatriated, as were a number of Americans who had been in Japan. Yet citizens of Allied countries caught in Shanghai and the Philippines spent the war in camps.