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IMHO, the only biometric authentication that has any potential of ever being secure, is a retinal scan. The barrier to break would be the "liveness check" - en

IMHO, the only biometric authentication that has any potential of ever being secure, is a retinal scan. The barrier to break would be the "liveness check" - ensuring that you aren't presented with a molded prop, but an actual eye. I'm not sure what the state of the art is with respect to this. The difference I see between fingerprint and retinal scan is that a fingerprint is readily visible - as this hack proves. I don't think you can capture a reliable retinal scan unless you get within centimeters of someone's eyeball with a scanner. Additionally, since we're essentially talking about a specialized camera, the system could combine gait recognition (distance), face recognition (mid-distance) and finally retinal recognition (face on scanner). Beat that. As always, authentication is just about authentication - you are who you "say you are". It has nothing to do with duress, etc.

Nanzikambe 12y ago
> gait recognition (distance) actor plus doesn't allow for injury to the authentic person. > face recognition (mid-distance) photograph or prosthetics + makeup > retinal recognition photograph or prosthetic model iris built to beat "aliveness" check None of these are hypothetical, all have been demonstrated (though perhaps not simultaneously) To my knowledge the only biometric that hasn't yet been fooled or broken would be a scan of your brain whilst you invoke muscle memory of an action which itself is unknown to anyone but you. I wouldn't wager even that couldn't be scanned and copied in some manner.
- yourad_io 12y ago
  My assumption is unbeatable "liveness check" at the retinal scanner[1]. Looking for iris contractions, etc. Can you present a functioning iris with a custom retinal image behind it? [1] Which kind of makes the rest of the system moot. Also, good point about gait recognition.
  - Nanzikambe 12y ago
    > Can you present a functioning iris with a custom retinal image behind it? It wouldn't need to be a real iris. Extant aliveness checks typically look for: reflections, pupil dynamics (contractions etc), frequency/resolution - these are all designed to look for digital forgeries (image on screen or paper); this leaves them open to a prosthetic model of an eye mimicking those effects (think a very sophisticated mannequin or doll's eye) backed by a generated retinal image. Ultimately (if you want to talk absolutes) as long as the scanner can't differentiate between the original and a cloned + transplanted eye, it can never be considered unbeatable :) As convoluted as all these sound, they're conceivably within the grasp of technology. It's worth remembering that many commercial scanners currently deployed don't implement any aliveness checks.
    - yourad_io 12y ago
      > It wouldn't need to be a real iris. Extant aliveness checks typically look for: reflections, pupil dynamics (contractions etc), frequency/resolution - these are all designed to look for digital forgeries (image on screen or paper); this leaves them open to a prosthetic model of an eye mimicking those effects (think a very sophisticated mannequin or doll's eye) backed by a generated retinal image. I was asking if you are aware of such a thing existing.
nishonia 12y ago
Retinal scans are out, iris scans are in. If I remember correctly, beyond the age of 5 the iris banding pattern remains the same. Retinal scans get tripped up by things like pregnancy and other health issues. I'd never use it for a password though, as there are commercial products that perform iris scans at a distance of several meters on non cooperative subjects. The first thing I thought of when I saw the product, sort of a virtual turnstile, was Snowcrash and the surreptitious collection of biometric information for eventual sale on the black market.

Nanzikambe 12y ago

> gait recognition (distance) actor plus doesn't allow for injury to the authentic person. > face recognition (mid-distance) photograph or prosthetics + makeup > retinal recognition photograph or prosthetic model iris built to beat "aliveness" check None of these are hypothetical, all have been demonstrated (though perhaps not simultaneously) To my knowledge the only biometric that hasn't yet been fooled or broken would be a scan of your brain whilst you invoke muscle memory of an action which itself is unknown to anyone but you. I wouldn't wager even that couldn't be scanned and copied in some manner.

yourad_io 12y ago
My assumption is unbeatable "liveness check" at the retinal scanner[1]. Looking for iris contractions, etc. Can you present a functioning iris with a custom retinal image behind it? [1] Which kind of makes the rest of the system moot. Also, good point about gait recognition.
- Nanzikambe 12y ago
  > Can you present a functioning iris with a custom retinal image behind it? It wouldn't need to be a real iris. Extant aliveness checks typically look for: reflections, pupil dynamics (contractions etc), frequency/resolution - these are all designed to look for digital forgeries (image on screen or paper); this leaves them open to a prosthetic model of an eye mimicking those effects (think a very sophisticated mannequin or doll's eye) backed by a generated retinal image. Ultimately (if you want to talk absolutes) as long as the scanner can't differentiate between the original and a cloned + transplanted eye, it can never be considered unbeatable :) As convoluted as all these sound, they're conceivably within the grasp of technology. It's worth remembering that many commercial scanners currently deployed don't implement any aliveness checks.
  - yourad_io 12y ago
    > It wouldn't need to be a real iris. Extant aliveness checks typically look for: reflections, pupil dynamics (contractions etc), frequency/resolution - these are all designed to look for digital forgeries (image on screen or paper); this leaves them open to a prosthetic model of an eye mimicking those effects (think a very sophisticated mannequin or doll's eye) backed by a generated retinal image. I was asking if you are aware of such a thing existing.

nishonia 12y ago

Retinal scans are out, iris scans are in. If I remember correctly, beyond the age of 5 the iris banding pattern remains the same. Retinal scans get tripped up by things like pregnancy and other health issues. I'd never use it for a password though, as there are commercial products that perform iris scans at a distance of several meters on non cooperative subjects. The first thing I thought of when I saw the product, sort of a virtual turnstile, was Snowcrash and the surreptitious collection of biometric information for eventual sale on the black market.