5 ms·

This is a very interesting (though not new) hypothesis. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21303428 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21303428 is the usual cit

by dlss 12y ago

This is a very interesting (though not new) hypothesis. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21303428 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21303428 is the usual citation. Neither paper has data how much of your dietary behavior is microbe related, which is a shame. Here's the data I have from developing a pseudo-FMT probiotic: During initial beta testing, I found myself snacking less and forgetting to eat. The forgetting to eat bit was extremely abnormal, as I'm usually very regular about meal times. I also found myself eating breakfast for the first time since starting at college. These and the experiences of my co-founder were sufficiently interesting that we added questions to our pilot study, where 72% of participants reported a reduction in food cravings and mild weight loss. So the effect is much bigger than you might imagine. Here's a customer describing his rather extreme subjective experience: "I started a total fast on Monday, and for the first 3 days only consumed water or green tea (and your probiotic), and today I only had BCAAs and a plain salad with vinegar, and so far this has been by far the easiest fast I've ever done. I haven't even gotten to the point where I feel physically hungry yet, and even my psychological desire for food is much weaker than it has been in past fasts." If anyone here is interested in a longer discussion of health related microbiome research, http://www.generalbiotics.com/science http://www.generalbiotics.com/science (which my co-founder wrote) provides a fairly through overview.

zoba 12y ago
What do you mean by "developing a pseudo-FMT probiotic"? How did you do that? I ask because your results are interesting enough that I'd like more information to understand if I should pursue it.
- maroonblazer 12y ago
  I believe he's referring to the product he's selling [1]. I've been struggling with digestive issues all my life. The recent findings on gut microbiome have interested me. I checked out the site below and appreciate the rigor behind the product development. Enough that I'll part with $37 to see if it helps. [1]http://www.generalbiotics.com/ http://www.generalbiotics.com/
wdewind 12y ago
> pseudo-FMT What does "pseudo" fecal microbial transplant mean? Why does your site not mention anything about FMT? (correct me if I'm wrong, I couldn't find it).
- dlss 12y ago
  Sorry about that, by pseudo-FMT I was referring to these two qualities: - Extremely broad spectrum from a metabolic function point of view - The formulation was designed to nudge your microbiome toward known healthy microbiome compositions. The product does this because those two traits are IMO essential components of a good probiotic. Which is strange because to my knowledge no other probiotic has these traits. The product is also different from an FMT in several important ways: - It does not contain poop - The current version contains 115 strains, whereas an FMT has around 1200 strains in the US (and around 1400 strains in Europe). - The current version contains 1 billion CFU, whereas an FMT (depending on type) is around 1 trillion CFU. These differences are because we were cautious with strain selection, because we didn't think it was cost effective to provide strains already very likely to be present, and because we wanted something suitable for daily use. (As a side note, ancestral microbial intake was ~1.8 billion daily CFU and modern intake is ~1 million CFU, so some sort of supplementation or change in diet for most people seems needed to me) Okay, I think that summarizes the big differences. I'm still on xmas vacation and should have thought more before describing it as a pseudo-FMT. The site doesn't mention FMT because, well, most people find FMTs disgusting...
  - wdewind 12y ago
    > - It does not contain poop Good to know, I've just ordered a month's supply to give it a shot. > we wanted something suitable for daily use. With full acknowledgment that I'm asking a barber if I need a haircut, is there a point at which continuing to take probiotic supplements has done everything it can do to restore the missing bacteria? Or do I need to take them indefinitely?
    - dlss 12y ago
      If you're interested in minimal usage, I'd say take it for a week, cease use until you notice something is missing, then take it for two days and repeat. When we tested this, we've found the off phase is between 0 and 14 days depending on the person. If you're thinking of going that route, please do refrigerate the product as shelf life is 4 months for fresh bottles at room temperature and 18 months in the fridge. This IMO happens for the same reason the product works -- with your current habits and behavior, some niches in your gut aren't able to stably support life... If there aren't any missing now you shouldn't notice any effect / if you don't change your behavior after repopulation they are unlikely to survive on their own. On the off chance you're a QS type, we are very interested in which behavioral changes change this drop off time. Any thoughts/notes/data you end up generating would be very much appreciated, especially exotic data (ie interactions with other self-experiments you run)

by dlss 12y ago

zoba 12y ago

What do you mean by "developing a pseudo-FMT probiotic"? How did you do that? I ask because your results are interesting enough that I'd like more information to understand if I should pursue it.

maroonblazer 12y ago
I believe he's referring to the product he's selling [1]. I've been struggling with digestive issues all my life. The recent findings on gut microbiome have interested me. I checked out the site below and appreciate the rigor behind the product development. Enough that I'll part with $37 to see if it helps. [1]http://www.generalbiotics.com/ http://www.generalbiotics.com/

wdewind 12y ago

> pseudo-FMT What does "pseudo" fecal microbial transplant mean? Why does your site not mention anything about FMT? (correct me if I'm wrong, I couldn't find it).

dlss 12y ago
Sorry about that, by pseudo-FMT I was referring to these two qualities: - Extremely broad spectrum from a metabolic function point of view - The formulation was designed to nudge your microbiome toward known healthy microbiome compositions. The product does this because those two traits are IMO essential components of a good probiotic. Which is strange because to my knowledge no other probiotic has these traits. The product is also different from an FMT in several important ways: - It does not contain poop - The current version contains 115 strains, whereas an FMT has around 1200 strains in the US (and around 1400 strains in Europe). - The current version contains 1 billion CFU, whereas an FMT (depending on type) is around 1 trillion CFU. These differences are because we were cautious with strain selection, because we didn't think it was cost effective to provide strains already very likely to be present, and because we wanted something suitable for daily use. (As a side note, ancestral microbial intake was ~1.8 billion daily CFU and modern intake is ~1 million CFU, so some sort of supplementation or change in diet for most people seems needed to me) Okay, I think that summarizes the big differences. I'm still on xmas vacation and should have thought more before describing it as a pseudo-FMT. The site doesn't mention FMT because, well, most people find FMTs disgusting...
- wdewind 12y ago
  > - It does not contain poop Good to know, I've just ordered a month's supply to give it a shot. > we wanted something suitable for daily use. With full acknowledgment that I'm asking a barber if I need a haircut, is there a point at which continuing to take probiotic supplements has done everything it can do to restore the missing bacteria? Or do I need to take them indefinitely?
  - dlss 12y ago
    If you're interested in minimal usage, I'd say take it for a week, cease use until you notice something is missing, then take it for two days and repeat. When we tested this, we've found the off phase is between 0 and 14 days depending on the person. If you're thinking of going that route, please do refrigerate the product as shelf life is 4 months for fresh bottles at room temperature and 18 months in the fridge. This IMO happens for the same reason the product works -- with your current habits and behavior, some niches in your gut aren't able to stably support life... If there aren't any missing now you shouldn't notice any effect / if you don't change your behavior after repopulation they are unlikely to survive on their own. On the off chance you're a QS type, we are very interested in which behavioral changes change this drop off time. Any thoughts/notes/data you end up generating would be very much appreciated, especially exotic data (ie interactions with other self-experiments you run)