4 ms·

Thanks. The site looks very interesting. But where do you buy your chips from shenzen ? And how do you manage reliability and long term availability ?

by minthd 12y ago

akiselev 12y ago
There are a few major electronics parts markets in Shenzhen, primarily Huaqiangbei and Luohu Commercial City (I've never been, I just hire someone with EE experience to do it for me). Most of the big name IC manufacturers' parts can be found between those two. When you are manufacturing anything in large quantities, part reliability (a better word would be authenticity) and availability are major concerns that are usually dealt with by someone upstream with experience in supply chains. When negotiating contracts I am always up front about how and where all of the major components will be sourced depending on a variety of factors. For example, if there is a tight deadline (e.g. designing part of a motherboard based on a new chipset where time to market is critical) then the first few revisions will be made up of parts sourced mostly from Shenzhen. If it's a niche contract (like defense/aerospace) then it depends on how fast I get the primary parts (e.g. rad hardened processors take a minimum of 3 months lead time so all parts are from manufacturers starting from the first revision). However, unless there is an extreme deadline or a manufacturer I loath dealing with (cough Marvell cough) the final boards sent to the client are made with manufacturer sourced parts, for which I have to start the procurement process the second I get the contract.
- minthd 12y ago
  So if you had to design something with medium volume(say a 1-10K/year), and you couldn't get parts from the manufacturer - would you source only from shenzen ? or skip the part ?
  - akiselev 12y ago
    I'm sorry I can't really give a straight answer to that question because it really depends on the context and risk-reward calculations. If the entire design revolves around that specific part and it's specialized, it's much riskier than if the part is more commoditized (e.g. power or ethernet) and there is money in the budget to risk a partial redesign based on part availability. If there is an experienced supply chain gal on the ground in China with a Rolodex of contacts, who speaks the language, and knows how to spot fakes the enterprise is much less risky than if you're doing the shopping yourself (or remotely which is a crapshoot). If it's a low margin product you might not have a choice but if it's a high margin product you probably don't want to risk the reputation. If it's a part that requires software such as a driver on the microprocessor, then you're in a whole other world of risk management dependent on manufacturer software quality and support. So on and on. Unfortunately, I don't know of any great resources that exhaustively detail this thought process (although I'm sure some are out there), although you can always look into systems engineering, which is a whole field dedicated to understanding how to manage complex engineering projects. Electrical engineering is all about trade offs and constraints which range from physical board size to manufacturing/assembly cost to R&D deadlines to software support. I would err on the side of investing more money into proper part selection and designing from the start with part swapping in mind because unlike with software, success or failure can be very binary with little room for error. The Shenzhen markets are great because I usually have to work under extreme deadlines that don't gel well with the pace of suppliers and my deliverables are at least several steps away from full production.
    - minthd 12y ago
      Thanks , that's a great answer, for a complex question.

Thanks. The site looks very interesting. But where do you buy your chips from shenzen ? And how do you manage reliability and long term availability ?

by minthd 12y ago

Thanks. The site looks very interesting. But where do you buy your chips from shenzen ? And how do you manage reliability and long term availability ?

akiselev 12y ago

There are a few major electronics parts markets in Shenzhen, primarily Huaqiangbei and Luohu Commercial City (I've never been, I just hire someone with EE experience to do it for me). Most of the big name IC manufacturers' parts can be found between those two. When you are manufacturing anything in large quantities, part reliability (a better word would be authenticity) and availability are major concerns that are usually dealt with by someone upstream with experience in supply chains. When negotiating contracts I am always up front about how and where all of the major components will be sourced depending on a variety of factors. For example, if there is a tight deadline (e.g. designing part of a motherboard based on a new chipset where time to market is critical) then the first few revisions will be made up of parts sourced mostly from Shenzhen. If it's a niche contract (like defense/aerospace) then it depends on how fast I get the primary parts (e.g. rad hardened processors take a minimum of 3 months lead time so all parts are from manufacturers starting from the first revision). However, unless there is an extreme deadline or a manufacturer I loath dealing with (cough Marvell cough) the final boards sent to the client are made with manufacturer sourced parts, for which I have to start the procurement process the second I get the contract.

minthd 12y ago
So if you had to design something with medium volume(say a 1-10K/year), and you couldn't get parts from the manufacturer - would you source only from shenzen ? or skip the part ?
- akiselev 12y ago
  I'm sorry I can't really give a straight answer to that question because it really depends on the context and risk-reward calculations. If the entire design revolves around that specific part and it's specialized, it's much riskier than if the part is more commoditized (e.g. power or ethernet) and there is money in the budget to risk a partial redesign based on part availability. If there is an experienced supply chain gal on the ground in China with a Rolodex of contacts, who speaks the language, and knows how to spot fakes the enterprise is much less risky than if you're doing the shopping yourself (or remotely which is a crapshoot). If it's a low margin product you might not have a choice but if it's a high margin product you probably don't want to risk the reputation. If it's a part that requires software such as a driver on the microprocessor, then you're in a whole other world of risk management dependent on manufacturer software quality and support. So on and on. Unfortunately, I don't know of any great resources that exhaustively detail this thought process (although I'm sure some are out there), although you can always look into systems engineering, which is a whole field dedicated to understanding how to manage complex engineering projects. Electrical engineering is all about trade offs and constraints which range from physical board size to manufacturing/assembly cost to R&D deadlines to software support. I would err on the side of investing more money into proper part selection and designing from the start with part swapping in mind because unlike with software, success or failure can be very binary with little room for error. The Shenzhen markets are great because I usually have to work under extreme deadlines that don't gel well with the pace of suppliers and my deliverables are at least several steps away from full production.
  - minthd 12y ago
    Thanks , that's a great answer, for a complex question.