4 ms·

Whenever I read a piece that is bullish on contraception and the sexual revolution of the 1960s, I become a little disheartened to think how many people today h

Whenever I read a piece that is bullish on contraception and the sexual revolution of the 1960s, I become a little disheartened to think how many people today have such a dim view of sex and their own human nature. Sex is about but pleasure, but also so much more. See John Paul II's Theology of the Body: http://www.ewtn.com/library/papaldoc/jp2tbind.htm http://www.ewtn.com/library/papaldoc/jp2tbind.htm This information should be lovingly and shared with young persons, even (and especially) when it challenges us as adults and requires us to grow in maturity and understanding. Also, there are wonderful modern, "open source" and free alternatives to pharmaceutical contraception, barrier methods and surgical sterilization, not to mention chemical and surgical abortion. I would invite readers here to learn about modern NFP and to help spread the word: http://www.thebillingsovulationmethod.org/ http://www.thebillingsovulationmethod.org/ http://www.usccb.org/issues-and-action/marriage-and-family/natural-family-planning/what-is-nfp/nfp-basic-information.cfm http://www.usccb.org/issues-and-action/marriage-and-family/n...

Chinjut 12y ago
That's funny. Whenever I hear from people that are "bearish" on contraception, the sexual revolution, etc., I become a little disheartened to think how many people even today have such a dim view of sex and their own human nature...
hvs 12y ago
The "rhythm method" is notoriously ineffective, and relying on the word of a celibate man for an understanding of sex is a bit strange. Also, 90% of what he is explaining assumes you believe in the theology of the Catholic church, which a lot of people don't. Also, I hardly believe that a lot of people have a "dim view of sex," and if they do, it is most likely because they grew up in the Catholic Church. Trust me, I know because I did.
- michaelsbradley 12y ago
  The Billings Method != "rhythm method". And there are other similar methods that belong to the modern NFP family, grounded in well-researched medical science and backed by clinical trials.
  - kungfooguru 12y ago
    I've never understood why the Billings method is OK with the Church but other forms of contraception aren't. Either way you are purposely having sex for the pleasure and attempting as best you can to not get pregnant. Oh it is "natural", right, because the Catholic Church requires only "natural" remedies for things? I use quotes since I don't even agree that Billings Method is any more natural than a condom or the pill. It simply takes more freedom away from the woman to choose when and how she has sex.
    - michaelsbradley 12y ago
      There are a variety of resources for learning more about the reasoning behind the Catholic Church's moral teachings. The following might be a helpful starting point regarding NFP: Birth Control and NFP: What's the Difference? http://www.priestsforlife.org/library/4741-birth-control-and-nfp-whats-the-difference http://www.priestsforlife.org/library/4741-birth-control-and... "NFP is not just a 'method' based on physiology. Rather, NFP is based on virtue. It is based on sexual self-control, which is necessary for a healthy marriage. There are times in any marriage when spouses have to put aside their desire for sex because of sickness, fatigue, travel, or other reasons. In a healthy marriage, love is shown in many ways, and not all these ways of showing love are physical. In fact, to refrain from sex when necessary is itself an act of love. Why? Because in effect the spouses then say to each other, 'I did not marry you just for sexual pleasure. I married you because I love you. You are a person, not an object. When I have sex with you, it is because I freely choose to show you my love, not because I need to satisfy an urge.' Using NFP requires abstinence from intercourse during the fertile days if a pregnancy has to be avoided. This actually can strengthen the couple's sexual life. When the spouses know that they can abstain for good reasons, they also come to trust each other more, and avoid the risk of treating each other primarily as objects of sexual pleasure rather than persons. Artificial birth control, on the other hand, gives free reign to the temptation to make pleasure the dominant element, rather than virtue. It encourages couples to think that sexual self-control is not necessary. It can encourage them to become slaves to pleasure."
      - kungfooguru 12y ago
EliRivers 12y ago
I think that by presenting a religious view of anything, you've already thrown away whatever credibility you have. It's Christmas, so let's be honest; religion is bullshit nonsense. Anything associated with it stinks, because it's smeared with shit; any truth, smeared with shit, will stink. That's not to say that you've got anything good here; just to say that by associating religion with it (which, coming from the head man of a major world religion, carries that association, even before he starts) you've shot any argument you might have had out at the kneecaps before it even got a chance to start walking. Next time, leave out the religious side and you might get a hearing rather than downvotes.
- michaelsbradley 12y ago
  I never worry much about downvotes, neither on HN nor in real life. My personal policy is to write or say whatever I think should be said, whenever I think it should be said, how I think it should be said and to whom I think it should be said. Of course, such a policy can only be successfully exercised when it's simmered in the virtue of prudence (i.e. its ongoing cultivation). I claim no particular success with regard to the latter, but I'll keep trying. Religion is a virtue, classically speaking, and true religion ought to be spoken of, publicly and privately, in season and out of season. RELIGION: the moral virtue by which a person is disposed to render to God the worship and service he desrves. It is sometimes identified with the virtue of justice toward God, whose rights are rooted in his complete dominion over all creation. Religion is also a composite of all the virtues that arise from a human being's relationship to God as the author of his or her being, even as love is a cluster of all the virtues arising from human response to God as the destiny of his or her being. Religion thus corresponds to the practice of piety toward God as Creator of the universe. (Etym. probably Latin religare, to tie , fasten, bind, or relegere, to gather up, treat with care.) – Fr. John Hardon, S.J., Modern Catholic Dictionary http://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/dictionary/index.cfm?id=36024 http://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/dictionary/in...
  - dang 12y ago
    Please stop taking Hacker News threads onto religious flamewar tangents.
trimtab 12y ago
Now that science has found a ovulation inducing factor (OIF)in human semen, we may now know why the Rhythm method has a high failure rate. http://www.wired.com/2012/08/semen-ovulation-fertility/ http://www.wired.com/2012/08/semen-ovulation-fertility/

Chinjut 12y ago

That's funny. Whenever I hear from people that are "bearish" on contraception, the sexual revolution, etc., I become a little disheartened to think how many people even today have such a dim view of sex and their own human nature...

hvs 12y ago

The "rhythm method" is notoriously ineffective, and relying on the word of a celibate man for an understanding of sex is a bit strange. Also, 90% of what he is explaining assumes you believe in the theology of the Catholic church, which a lot of people don't. Also, I hardly believe that a lot of people have a "dim view of sex," and if they do, it is most likely because they grew up in the Catholic Church. Trust me, I know because I did.

michaelsbradley 12y ago
The Billings Method != "rhythm method". And there are other similar methods that belong to the modern NFP family, grounded in well-researched medical science and backed by clinical trials.
- kungfooguru 12y ago
  I've never understood why the Billings method is OK with the Church but other forms of contraception aren't. Either way you are purposely having sex for the pleasure and attempting as best you can to not get pregnant. Oh it is "natural", right, because the Catholic Church requires only "natural" remedies for things? I use quotes since I don't even agree that Billings Method is any more natural than a condom or the pill. It simply takes more freedom away from the woman to choose when and how she has sex.
  - michaelsbradley 12y ago
    There are a variety of resources for learning more about the reasoning behind the Catholic Church's moral teachings. The following might be a helpful starting point regarding NFP: Birth Control and NFP: What's the Difference? http://www.priestsforlife.org/library/4741-birth-control-and-nfp-whats-the-difference http://www.priestsforlife.org/library/4741-birth-control-and... "NFP is not just a 'method' based on physiology. Rather, NFP is based on virtue. It is based on sexual self-control, which is necessary for a healthy marriage. There are times in any marriage when spouses have to put aside their desire for sex because of sickness, fatigue, travel, or other reasons. In a healthy marriage, love is shown in many ways, and not all these ways of showing love are physical. In fact, to refrain from sex when necessary is itself an act of love. Why? Because in effect the spouses then say to each other, 'I did not marry you just for sexual pleasure. I married you because I love you. You are a person, not an object. When I have sex with you, it is because I freely choose to show you my love, not because I need to satisfy an urge.' Using NFP requires abstinence from intercourse during the fertile days if a pregnancy has to be avoided. This actually can strengthen the couple's sexual life. When the spouses know that they can abstain for good reasons, they also come to trust each other more, and avoid the risk of treating each other primarily as objects of sexual pleasure rather than persons. Artificial birth control, on the other hand, gives free reign to the temptation to make pleasure the dominant element, rather than virtue. It encourages couples to think that sexual self-control is not necessary. It can encourage them to become slaves to pleasure."
    - kungfooguru 12y ago

EliRivers 12y ago

I think that by presenting a religious view of anything, you've already thrown away whatever credibility you have. It's Christmas, so let's be honest; religion is bullshit nonsense. Anything associated with it stinks, because it's smeared with shit; any truth, smeared with shit, will stink. That's not to say that you've got anything good here; just to say that by associating religion with it (which, coming from the head man of a major world religion, carries that association, even before he starts) you've shot any argument you might have had out at the kneecaps before it even got a chance to start walking. Next time, leave out the religious side and you might get a hearing rather than downvotes.

michaelsbradley 12y ago
I never worry much about downvotes, neither on HN nor in real life. My personal policy is to write or say whatever I think should be said, whenever I think it should be said, how I think it should be said and to whom I think it should be said. Of course, such a policy can only be successfully exercised when it's simmered in the virtue of prudence (i.e. its ongoing cultivation). I claim no particular success with regard to the latter, but I'll keep trying. Religion is a virtue, classically speaking, and true religion ought to be spoken of, publicly and privately, in season and out of season. RELIGION: the moral virtue by which a person is disposed to render to God the worship and service he desrves. It is sometimes identified with the virtue of justice toward God, whose rights are rooted in his complete dominion over all creation. Religion is also a composite of all the virtues that arise from a human being's relationship to God as the author of his or her being, even as love is a cluster of all the virtues arising from human response to God as the destiny of his or her being. Religion thus corresponds to the practice of piety toward God as Creator of the universe. (Etym. probably Latin religare, to tie , fasten, bind, or relegere, to gather up, treat with care.) – Fr. John Hardon, S.J., Modern Catholic Dictionary http://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/dictionary/index.cfm?id=36024 http://www.catholicculture.org/culture/library/dictionary/in...
- dang 12y ago
  Please stop taking Hacker News threads onto religious flamewar tangents.

trimtab 12y ago

Now that science has found a ovulation inducing factor (OIF)in human semen, we may now know why the Rhythm method has a high failure rate. http://www.wired.com/2012/08/semen-ovulation-fertility/ http://www.wired.com/2012/08/semen-ovulation-fertility/