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"As far as I read it: no, as long as there aren't any further restrictions on the font by third parties." My reading of 5e says the opposite. That 'unless expr

by delinka 12y ago

"As far as I read it: no, as long as there aren't any further restrictions on the font by third parties." My reading of 5e says the opposite. That 'unless expressly permitted by content owners' you shouldn't be allowing caching of content provided via Google APIs.

Argorak 12y ago
I think we are arguing the same thing: It's the content owners decision, not Googles. Considering that most (all?) fonts on Google Fonts are open (most I checked use SIL or Apache as license), downloading is most likely allowed.
- delinka 12y ago
  Perhaps we are arguing the same thing ultimately, but it's important to understand the distinction Google is attempting to make. They're basically trying to cover themselves by asserting that they are not granting any additional freedom beyond what the designer intended. Relicensing without permission is copyright infringement-- Google doesn't want the headache. Their safest course is to specify that unless you've been given license to do certain things by the content owner, that Google themselves is not licensing you to do those things. Think of it like an affirmation from an open source project licensed under an MIT or BSD license. Although they might include GPL code from elsewhere, they'll generally state that they're not relicensing someone else's GPL code under the less restrictive license.
  - Argorak 12y ago
    Yes, we are. Thanks for the writeup. Probably the biggest issue for the service will be to make sure that licensing is ensured. (see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8802833 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8802833)
majodev 12y ago
Hm, well then I will have to request the font files fetched from their hosted CSS, compress them and pipe this output (the resulting zip) without any caching on the server. This may result in a higher latency, but might be more safe in regards to their ToS.
- delinka 12y ago
  My personal opinion is to leave things as they are until you hear from Google. Simply be aware of the possible interpretations of the ToS. I do believe Argorak has the correct sentiment: that it's ultimately up to the individual font designer/cretor. Your temporary caching, to me, seems fine. I read the ToS as saying that permitting your end user to obtain permanent copies might be disallowed ... at the discretion of the font designers. To be absolutely certain, you should check each font's license. Considering the fonts aren't Google's to license, I doubt you'll hear from them.
  - majodev 12y ago
    THX for this response! I'll look into that. Interestingly, Google's own Fonts API which I'm using with my service, doesn't provide any information about the underlying license of each font (I previously wanted to include that info in the UI as well).

by delinka 12y ago

Argorak 12y ago

I think we are arguing the same thing: It's the content owners decision, not Googles. Considering that most (all?) fonts on Google Fonts are open (most I checked use SIL or Apache as license), downloading is most likely allowed.

delinka 12y ago
Perhaps we are arguing the same thing ultimately, but it's important to understand the distinction Google is attempting to make. They're basically trying to cover themselves by asserting that they are not granting any additional freedom beyond what the designer intended. Relicensing without permission is copyright infringement-- Google doesn't want the headache. Their safest course is to specify that unless you've been given license to do certain things by the content owner, that Google themselves is not licensing you to do those things. Think of it like an affirmation from an open source project licensed under an MIT or BSD license. Although they might include GPL code from elsewhere, they'll generally state that they're not relicensing someone else's GPL code under the less restrictive license.
- Argorak 12y ago
  Yes, we are. Thanks for the writeup. Probably the biggest issue for the service will be to make sure that licensing is ensured. (see https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8802833 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8802833)

majodev 12y ago

Hm, well then I will have to request the font files fetched from their hosted CSS, compress them and pipe this output (the resulting zip) without any caching on the server. This may result in a higher latency, but might be more safe in regards to their ToS.

delinka 12y ago
My personal opinion is to leave things as they are until you hear from Google. Simply be aware of the possible interpretations of the ToS. I do believe Argorak has the correct sentiment: that it's ultimately up to the individual font designer/cretor. Your temporary caching, to me, seems fine. I read the ToS as saying that permitting your end user to obtain permanent copies might be disallowed ... at the discretion of the font designers. To be absolutely certain, you should check each font's license. Considering the fonts aren't Google's to license, I doubt you'll hear from them.
- majodev 12y ago
  THX for this response! I'll look into that. Interestingly, Google's own Fonts API which I'm using with my service, doesn't provide any information about the underlying license of each font (I previously wanted to include that info in the UI as well).