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I'm not super fond of the assumption that someone is bipolar simply because of going in and out of frenetic periods of activity, that isn't really what bipolar

I'm not super fond of the assumption that someone is bipolar simply because of going in and out of frenetic periods of activity, that isn't really what bipolar disorder is. I have bipolar (II), so here's some things: Since I only have bipolar II, I have never experienced "true" mania, but I can tell you that even hypo-mania is not what is described. Hypomania is more like having your throttle stuck on wide open and nothing you can do will make it stop. You just keep moving a mile a minute, even if you're exhausted. The thoughts just keep moving, faster and faster. You become impulsive. Have you ever bought 20 plants because you were sure it was a great idea then killed them when you became depressed? Bought $400 worth of sushi because, shit, it's a Tuesday? Those are some things that happen, out of the blue, and the thing that's maddening is that anything you do while you're manic is going to get fucked up as soon as you become depressed. And the depression isn't just melancholia, at least usually, it's something far deeper, the _inability_ to do things. You can will yourself to have motivation to do something for hours, only to find yourself hardly able to do it. It isn't even really a sadness, or disillusionment, it's a fog, it feels like you can't even think straight. As a programmer, it's a special hell, because it feels like my brain doesn't even work right. And while Lisp is great, it is no salve to that. So no, this isn't the Bipolar Lisp Programmer, this is the Stereotypical Smart Bored Youth Programmer.

javert 12y ago
I find your description of bipolar to be interesting, so thanks. It wasn't clear to me that the author actually meant "bipolar" in the medical sense. I think he meant something else, and it was just a convenient, but perhaps confusing, term.
- lexicalscope 12y ago
  No worries, and I do get that, and I'm not furious about it or anything like that. I will say though, it's frustrating when you suffer from this condition to have it characterized in this way, as an adjective, in the same way I imagine it's frustrating for people that actually have Asperger's to hear that thrown around as much as it is now. That said, I can deal with my frustration, what actually worries me is that a lot of people that don't have bipolar disorder will call themselves bipolar, and make people that actually do have these problems think it's normal and that they don't need treatment or help. It's hard enough to reach out for treatment without someone telling you or implying that "oh yeah, most people have that who are smart, you just need to figure out how to be less angsty!" If that makes sense. Tl;dr: Generalizing in this way hurts people that need help, I was once one of those people, so I just want to educate people to try to avoid doing this.
  - javert 12y ago
    I agree. I'm surprised the author hasn't edited the essay to something more appropriate after all these years. (It's a pretty well-known essay.)
waterhouse 12y ago
> Stereotypical Smart Bored Youth Programmer See also Jamie Zawinski's "Cascade of Attention-Deficit Teenagers": http://www.jwz.org/doc/cadt.html http://www.jwz.org/doc/cadt.html
- Argorak 12y ago
  I may read it wrong, but that's quite an insult for people that do _actually_ have an attention deficit disorder.
  - waterhouse 12y ago
    Heh heh, perhaps they might read it as such. I'm sure that, like the article this thread is about, the author intended to make a point about a group of people by describing them in terms of the popular notion of the disorder, and didn't intend to seriously talk about people who really have the disorder. (In this case, I imagine the "teenagers" part of the description, which is directed at people who are most likely professional developers in their 20s, is meant at least as pejoratively as the "attention deficit" part.)
imthrownaway 12y ago
Hello (sister|brother)! I have Bipolar (I). It's not "only" bipolar I or II, they're both terrible (so I'm told, I've never been "not bipolar"). You've really hit the nail on the head. I could waste bytes with more words of agreement, but you've covered it pretty well. Manic-Depression is one of those turns of phrase that really illustrates how clumsy human communications are, given our single frame of reference.
bpchaps 12y ago
Thank you for this. I think you hit the nail on the head. I was diagnosed with bipolar type 2 about a week ago. It's a very odd thing to experience a life of being "different" without explanation, then suddenly a thousand pieces come together. I feel refreshed and vindicated now that I know the reason. When I'm in my highs, I feel like I can accomplish anything, and sometimes actually do. But like you say, that can come to a crash in an instant. Reading? Forget about it... unless you're in your high. Studying? Same. Relationships? You bet. As sad as that it sounds, there's definitely some good to it. I feel that my sense of "self" is exaggerated.. in a hugely positive way that doesn't affect my ego in a negative way. Someone once explained to me that those with bipolar are able to achieve "self mastery" easier - if they're able to overcome the negatives of the disorder. If I were to live another life and choose whether to have it or not, I'm fairly positive I would want to have it. Then again, I'm in a great mood right now. Go figure. ;)
comrh 12y ago
Same here. The most common definition I've seen is bipolar I requires one manic period requiring hospitalization. For me the II form means a whole lot of shitty decisions.

javert 12y ago

I find your description of bipolar to be interesting, so thanks. It wasn't clear to me that the author actually meant "bipolar" in the medical sense. I think he meant something else, and it was just a convenient, but perhaps confusing, term.

lexicalscope 12y ago
No worries, and I do get that, and I'm not furious about it or anything like that. I will say though, it's frustrating when you suffer from this condition to have it characterized in this way, as an adjective, in the same way I imagine it's frustrating for people that actually have Asperger's to hear that thrown around as much as it is now. That said, I can deal with my frustration, what actually worries me is that a lot of people that don't have bipolar disorder will call themselves bipolar, and make people that actually do have these problems think it's normal and that they don't need treatment or help. It's hard enough to reach out for treatment without someone telling you or implying that "oh yeah, most people have that who are smart, you just need to figure out how to be less angsty!" If that makes sense. Tl;dr: Generalizing in this way hurts people that need help, I was once one of those people, so I just want to educate people to try to avoid doing this.
- javert 12y ago
  I agree. I'm surprised the author hasn't edited the essay to something more appropriate after all these years. (It's a pretty well-known essay.)

waterhouse 12y ago

> Stereotypical Smart Bored Youth Programmer See also Jamie Zawinski's "Cascade of Attention-Deficit Teenagers": http://www.jwz.org/doc/cadt.html http://www.jwz.org/doc/cadt.html

Argorak 12y ago
I may read it wrong, but that's quite an insult for people that do _actually_ have an attention deficit disorder.
- waterhouse 12y ago
  Heh heh, perhaps they might read it as such. I'm sure that, like the article this thread is about, the author intended to make a point about a group of people by describing them in terms of the popular notion of the disorder, and didn't intend to seriously talk about people who really have the disorder. (In this case, I imagine the "teenagers" part of the description, which is directed at people who are most likely professional developers in their 20s, is meant at least as pejoratively as the "attention deficit" part.)

imthrownaway 12y ago

Hello (sister|brother)! I have Bipolar (I). It's not "only" bipolar I or II, they're both terrible (so I'm told, I've never been "not bipolar"). You've really hit the nail on the head. I could waste bytes with more words of agreement, but you've covered it pretty well. Manic-Depression is one of those turns of phrase that really illustrates how clumsy human communications are, given our single frame of reference.

bpchaps 12y ago

Thank you for this. I think you hit the nail on the head. I was diagnosed with bipolar type 2 about a week ago. It's a very odd thing to experience a life of being "different" without explanation, then suddenly a thousand pieces come together. I feel refreshed and vindicated now that I know the reason. When I'm in my highs, I feel like I can accomplish anything, and sometimes actually do. But like you say, that can come to a crash in an instant. Reading? Forget about it... unless you're in your high. Studying? Same. Relationships? You bet. As sad as that it sounds, there's definitely some good to it. I feel that my sense of "self" is exaggerated.. in a hugely positive way that doesn't affect my ego in a negative way. Someone once explained to me that those with bipolar are able to achieve "self mastery" easier - if they're able to overcome the negatives of the disorder. If I were to live another life and choose whether to have it or not, I'm fairly positive I would want to have it. Then again, I'm in a great mood right now. Go figure. ;)

comrh 12y ago

Same here. The most common definition I've seen is bipolar I requires one manic period requiring hospitalization. For me the II form means a whole lot of shitty decisions.