3 ms·

[Earlier today, someone told me that I've "drunk the kool-aid" of my employers, Pivotal Labs.] I guess perspectives can be very different. I consider "Kool-Aid

by kumarm 12y ago

[Earlier today, someone told me that I've "drunk the kool-aid" of my employers, Pivotal Labs.] I guess perspectives can be very different. I consider "Kool-Aid' you are referring to as plain insult to software engineering :). Couple of years back Pivotallabs was preaching ideal pair programming. I am assuming it still does? If two people using a single keyboard, single Monitor is so efficient how come CEO's and CFO's, aren't advised to use the same approach? Is it because Developers are just lineworkers with no individual creativity? I would never consider working at a company like that :).

jacques_chester 12y ago
We don't "preach" pair programming. It's how we work. We're hiring. If you want to see what it's like, apply. We use pair programming sessions as the core of our hiring process.
- jes5199 12y ago
  ah, right, that's why I don't work there, I had forgotten.
  - jacques_chester 12y ago
    I don't understand the ire. It's a straight up great place to work.
    - jes5199 12y ago
      it's great if you like to pair program every day. I get sick of pairing after about 3 hours. So it's not one-size-fits-all but I often meet people who can't imagine disliking pairing and try to convince me that my lived experience is somehow incorrect but theirs is accurate.
      - jacques_chester 12y ago
        Thanks for expanding. Personally, I agree with you: pair programming is not suitable for everyone. After a day of pairing I definitely want some quiet time. We recently had an energetic internal discussion about whether we are simply selecting for extraversion in our process. I suspect we're probably filtering out very strong introverts, but I've honestly seen a wide band of personalities. I've worked with men and women ranging from those who are chatty as I am, to the downright laconic. Some who want to socialise after work, to others like me who just want to go home for some personal time.
- kumarm 12y ago
  You didn't answer my question. Why wouldn't Pair Programing concept be applicable to CEO's and Other Executives? Why only programmers/Designers need to be Pair Programmed?
  - jacques_chester 12y ago
    Deciding what to build is different from deciding how to build it. Typically at Pivotal we have a single Product Manager per product, who acts as the single decision point for how to prioritise the stories and bugs in the backlog. This increases the odds that a clear product direction will emerge -- it avoids the mum and dad game. The Product Manager and the team do most of the planning for a week at an Iteration Planning Meeting, and the PM remains available during the week to answer questions, accept stories and to update priorities according to changing circumstances. Once you know what to work on, it's important to build the system correctly, and to ensure that there is shared understanding of how it is going to work. Pair programming with frequent rotations is an outstanding way to do that. Incidentally, as it happens, I've seen Pivotal management pairing on management problems. And they retain the habits of communicating clearly, openly and frequently with each other and everyone else. I've also seen Product Managers pairing as well, typically when we have provided a PM from Labs to work with, and help train, someone from the client who will take over as Product Manager.

by kumarm 12y ago

jacques_chester 12y ago

We don't "preach" pair programming. It's how we work. We're hiring. If you want to see what it's like, apply. We use pair programming sessions as the core of our hiring process.

jes5199 12y ago
ah, right, that's why I don't work there, I had forgotten.
- jacques_chester 12y ago
  I don't understand the ire. It's a straight up great place to work.
  - jes5199 12y ago
    it's great if you like to pair program every day. I get sick of pairing after about 3 hours. So it's not one-size-fits-all but I often meet people who can't imagine disliking pairing and try to convince me that my lived experience is somehow incorrect but theirs is accurate.
    - jacques_chester 12y ago
      Thanks for expanding. Personally, I agree with you: pair programming is not suitable for everyone. After a day of pairing I definitely want some quiet time. We recently had an energetic internal discussion about whether we are simply selecting for extraversion in our process. I suspect we're probably filtering out very strong introverts, but I've honestly seen a wide band of personalities. I've worked with men and women ranging from those who are chatty as I am, to the downright laconic. Some who want to socialise after work, to others like me who just want to go home for some personal time.
kumarm 12y ago
You didn't answer my question. Why wouldn't Pair Programing concept be applicable to CEO's and Other Executives? Why only programmers/Designers need to be Pair Programmed?
- jacques_chester 12y ago
  Deciding what to build is different from deciding how to build it. Typically at Pivotal we have a single Product Manager per product, who acts as the single decision point for how to prioritise the stories and bugs in the backlog. This increases the odds that a clear product direction will emerge -- it avoids the mum and dad game. The Product Manager and the team do most of the planning for a week at an Iteration Planning Meeting, and the PM remains available during the week to answer questions, accept stories and to update priorities according to changing circumstances. Once you know what to work on, it's important to build the system correctly, and to ensure that there is shared understanding of how it is going to work. Pair programming with frequent rotations is an outstanding way to do that. Incidentally, as it happens, I've seen Pivotal management pairing on management problems. And they retain the habits of communicating clearly, openly and frequently with each other and everyone else. I've also seen Product Managers pairing as well, typically when we have provided a PM from Labs to work with, and help train, someone from the client who will take over as Product Manager.