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There exists no practical, reliable method to identify the "great" programmers from the rest (other than by employing them or working with them over a significa

by kohanz 12y ago

There exists no practical, reliable method to identify the "great" programmers from the rest (other than by employing them or working with them over a significant amount of time). Many of them interview poorly. If you could actually identify these people, you'd have a billion dollar idea. So that implies that in order to grant entry to the "great" programmers, the door needs to be wide open to everyone. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, but it doesn't appear to be addressed by PG.

jleyank 12y ago
FWIW, truly exceptional programmers can always be hired under things like the O-1 visa (unless tech isn't included in "sciences" or "business"). I assume that they mean people like Linus or Bill Joy when they mean "great programmers", not somebody who can sling Javascript 20 hours a day... Or, are all the companies looking for these rockstars looking to help them immigrate to the US, rather than spend a few years solving problems? Cuz I think they're not...
mbesto 12y ago
I bring up this point everytime the debate comes up. The talent war is real. The immigration problem is real. But I have yet to see anyone (myself included) present a valid solution.
bengali3 12y ago
agreed, imagine how many great programmers could be made instead of bought & traded?
zodiac 12y ago
You could, for example, grant entry to programmers whose sponsors would be willing to pay very high salaries for them. Sure, you end up with false negatives (there are some great programmers who for some reason wouldn't be able to command those salaries), but hopefully it's not high enough to matter. Eg: 5% of great developers are in the US and 95% are outside. Assuming we have a false negative rate of 50% (a great programmer has a 50% chance of not being recognized as one), the policy would potentially let 47.5% of great developers in, which would potentially increase the number of great developers in the US by about 10x. The actual increase will be lower because not all of them will want to work in the US.

by kohanz 12y ago

jleyank 12y ago

FWIW, truly exceptional programmers can always be hired under things like the O-1 visa (unless tech isn't included in "sciences" or "business"). I assume that they mean people like Linus or Bill Joy when they mean "great programmers", not somebody who can sling Javascript 20 hours a day... Or, are all the companies looking for these rockstars looking to help them immigrate to the US, rather than spend a few years solving problems? Cuz I think they're not...

mbesto 12y ago

I bring up this point everytime the debate comes up. The talent war is real. The immigration problem is real. But I have yet to see anyone (myself included) present a valid solution.

bengali3 12y ago

agreed, imagine how many great programmers could be made instead of bought & traded?

zodiac 12y ago

You could, for example, grant entry to programmers whose sponsors would be willing to pay very high salaries for them. Sure, you end up with false negatives (there are some great programmers who for some reason wouldn't be able to command those salaries), but hopefully it's not high enough to matter. Eg: 5% of great developers are in the US and 95% are outside. Assuming we have a false negative rate of 50% (a great programmer has a 50% chance of not being recognized as one), the policy would potentially let 47.5% of great developers in, which would potentially increase the number of great developers in the US by about 10x. The actual increase will be lower because not all of them will want to work in the US.