19 ms·

Roadster 3.0

169 points by cpwright 12y ago

beltex 12y ago
"Should mention that a battery pack upgrade is not coming soon for the Model S, but it obviously will happen long-term." https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/548269323681529856 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/548269323681529856
- cloudwalking 12y ago
  Most likely the Model S already has many of the battery advancements that are now coming to the Roadster.
- bjeanes 12y ago
  Hrm... he deleted that tweet :/
sz4kerto 12y ago
"The original Roadster had a drag coefficient (Cd) of 0.36. Using modern computational methods we expect to make a 15% improvement, dropping the total Cd down to 0.31 with a retrofit aero kit." I wonder how's this going to affect the generated downforce (=> and, as a consequence, the aerodynamic grip). Cd for a F1 car is around 1.
- tacos 12y ago
  My Audi A6 has a Cd of 0.26. Comparing it to F1 makes no sense. They're open wheel.
  - clamprecht 12y ago
    Not only are they open wheel, but they have intentional downforce that exceeds the weight of the entire car.
    - wmeredith 12y ago
      They also have 600 horsepower and pass a gas station every 45 seconds :) Why compare?
      - dripton 12y ago
        Current F1 rules do not allow in-race refueling. But, yeah, expensive purpose-built race cars have little in common with road cars.
        wmeredith 12y ago
        Ah, I was thinking of Indy.
        threeseed 12y ago
        > But, yeah, expensive purpose-built race cars have little in common with road cars I wouldn't say little. Many F1 technologies have made it into production road cars and the future of the sport will see this technology sharing increase. That's why there was the big engine change last year. And it wouldn't surprise me if their split turbocharger design that was responsible for Mercedes success makes it into their road cars.
  - sz4kerto 12y ago
    It absolutely does make sense. F1 cars have high Cd because they need lots of downforce. An A6 does not need as high Cd as a sports car. So if a roadster's Cd goes down then the question arises: will it affect it's aerodynamic grip or not?
    - tacos 12y ago
      Since you're asking a math question the answer is "yes of course." However having owned an Elise and driven a Tesla Roadster I will confirm that strapping the equivalent in weight of an entire F1 car in batteries to the bottom of one removes aerodynamic handling from the bigger equation at play. They're fun as hell and also uncomfortable as fuck. 400 miles is more of an endurance test for the driver than the power supply. (Also, loved every second inside both of them!)
- mrfusion 12y ago
  Computional methods have improved that much in ten years?? Why aren't all cars doin this?
  - tacos 12y ago
    They do: even pedestrian looking Audis and Mazdas from a few years ago beat this retrofit by quite some margin. And the Tesla Model S is 0.24.
    - mrfusion 12y ago
      So what was it we couldn't do ten years ago to get these same values?
      - tacos 12y ago
        In the case of Tesla you mean? One look at the Lotus Elise and you'll see they weren't exactly going for aerodynamics. Tesla barely survived the launch, so it wasn't going to happen back then. This is one of those "in hindsight" kind of things that never get fixed. The fact that Tesla is doing it says a LOT positive about them.
- brudgers 12y ago
  'Cd is a coefficient. It reflects the aerodynamic efficiency of the car relative to an equivalent frontal area oriented vertically [i.e. a brick]. An F1 car achieves efficiency by having a small frontal area and effectively directing drag forces. 0,5 square meters with a 'Cd of 1.0 creates less force than 2.0 square meters with a 'Cd of 0.3.
- jigg4joe 12y ago
  Is aerodynamic grip really relevant for a road car? Is anyone really turning at a speed fast enough for it to matter? If you want to improve grip for your road car, you tune the suspension and buy some nice tires. Lowering the Cd will definitely improve your milage, however.
spodek 12y ago
Someone somewhere is reacting with "We must further prevent them from selling in our state!" Actually, probably fifty people like that. Or rather organizations. And they'll work as hard as they can to keep this from consumers.
- acangiano 12y ago
  Don't you love the "free market until it actually creates competition for us" model?
  - ams6110 12y ago
    Don't you love government regulation of the market until it affects something I want to buy?
    - hnnewguy 12y ago
      >Don't you love government regulation of the market until it affects something I want to buy? Precisely. Would Tesla even exist today without government subsidies? Nope. For that matter, neither would GM or Chrysler. Why are the majors seen as "evil", and Tesla as "good"? I don't understand that narrative whatsoever. I just want good electric cars, and couldn't care less who produces them.
      - icebraining 12y ago
        Would Tesla even exist today without government subsidies? Nope. What makes you so sure? Obviously the cars would be more expensive, but then again so would their competitors'.
      - enraged_camel 12y ago
        Because in almost any market, incumbents do everything they can to prevent newcomers from establishing a foothold in the market. A current example of this is the proxy war the established automakers are fighting against Tesla via their dealerships, who are pressuring their local politicians to ban Tesla from selling directly to consumers in various states. >>I just want good electric cars, and couldn't care less who produces them. The world would be a better place if people cared about who is producing the stuff they buy, and how. Just a thought.
kenrikm 12y ago
If Tesla continues to follow this route it will have lasting implications for the automotive industry. Instead of replacing" your car every 5-10 years you can "Upgrade" keeping existing chassis but replacing enough to make it "Like New" (Refurb vs Replace) Automakers sell a completely new car just to make a few thousand dollars every 5-10 years and that's only if the customer stays loyal (Also why some car companies have loyalty incentives) in this case Tesla can still make that income and the customer is locked in as a bonus this will help to keep resale values high since there will be less cars on the market because owners upgrade instead of selling. Now more then ever I wish I bought Tesla stock before it went through the roof.
- chatmasta 12y ago
  Automakers lock consumers into rebill programs via debt, i.e. a car loan. Tesla locks consumers into rebill via equity, i.e. a nice car, conveniently iteratively upgradeable. Thus Tesla gains capital advantage because it has no liability after disposing of a car asset, while automakers generate debt liability. For every car manufactured, automakers create a liability for themselves, while Tesla creates an automated income stream. Consequently cash flows better in Tesla than in its competitors. Relative to that of automakers, Tesla cash flow increases exponentially. Tesla is competing on a different level. The automakers will be lucky to earn a spot on Tesla's platform. At the very least, Tesla has a first-mover advantage in a surprisingly new market.
  - ams6110 12y ago
    You're saying people don't debt-finance Teslas?
    - pinot 12y ago
      Sure they do, but someone who bought a Roaster in 2008 surely has it paid off by now. However unlike every other manufacturer that forgets about the vehicles it used to make (unless there's a recall), Tesla is improving existing products. I have a 2004 SUV with a 7" satnav in it and some god-awful software package. Does Acura offer an upgrade path for this? Other than a way to update the roads database, no. Buy a new SUV.
finid 12y ago
> ... we can achieve a predicted 40-50% improvement on range between the original Roadster and Roadster 3.0. There is a set of speeds and driving conditions where we can confidently drive the Roadster 3.0 over 400 miles. That has been the range where I'll even begin to consider a car of that sort. I'm seriously rooting for Tesla.
- mcot2 12y ago
  Range is less important to me than ease and availability of recharging or refueling.
  - finid 12y ago
    Not if recharging takes hours. If you combine a decent range (400+ miles) with a fast recharge time, say, an hour or less, then you've got a real winner.
    - waterlesscloud 12y ago
      Not sure why this is downvoted. What you've stated are the magic numbers for widespread electric car use. 400 mile range with sub-hour recharge. Shouldn't really be a controversial point.
      - finid 12y ago
        You see, for some people, being able to downvote a comment is a power thing, so I don't take it personally. If I have a point to make, I'll do just that. Let the down-voters have fun. I expect this comment to be down-voted too.
- greglindahl 12y ago
  People who actually own Teslas are, on the whole, less fanatic than you are about range. If you can charge in your home garage, then you start every morning with a full battery. How many days do you drive more than 265 miles? And for long trips, there's the supercharger network, and the first battery swap station is in beta along the SF/LA route.
xasos 12y ago
>Roadster upgrade will enable non-stop travel from LA to SF -- almost 400 mile range. Details tmrw. Merry Christmas! (https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/548269323681529856 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/548269323681529856) I think this is super awesome. The fact that range is up from 265 miles to 400 is a great accomplishment. I look forward to seeing what the Tesla team will be doing in the upcoming years.
- Timmmmmm 12y ago
  That's actually pretty significant. I doubt anyone would want to drive more than 400 miles in a day. You can almost get between any two points in England with that range.
  - waterlesscloud 12y ago
    400 miles wouldn't even get me to my brother's place in the next state over. More than 400 miles in a day is common in US roadtripping. On the other hand, breaking up those long driving days with a reasonable recharging period would be more than OK.
    - grobinson 12y ago
      I think for many Europeans it's easy to forget just how big USA and Canada are. I've been on vacation (we just call it holiday) where we've driven SF -> Yosemite -> Las Vegas -> Arizona -> LA, and on another trip DC -> Virginia -> Charleston -> Savannah -> DC, and both times I've forgotten just how long it takes to get anywhere. I suspect this is why so many people fly domestic?
  - tcskeptic 12y ago
    Every summer I drive my family home 928 miles in a single day from our vacation house in Florida.
    - jedberg 12y ago
      Sure, but you probably take a 45 minute break somewhere in there to "recharge" your body, so recharging your car isn't that big a deal.
NDizzle 12y ago
I wouldn't think that a roadster is the correct vehicle for LRR tires. I had them on my 1st gen Insight and they are terrible, terrible things from a performance point of view.
- maxerickson 12y ago
  It could be a thing where they choose a tire that maintains sufficient performance at a lower rolling resistance.
  - ams6110 12y ago
    A Tesla (especially a Roadster) is a performance car though. Extreme LRR tires are not what most buyers are going to want.
- vkat 12y ago
  Agree. We have them on our 2012 Camry hybrid and they are terrible. Tread is almost gone at 24000 miles and road grip is the worst. The tires squeal while reversing because of the turn radius. Maybe there is a better tire brand but I will be opting out of LRR when we have to replace the tires.
ktzar 12y ago
It'd be awesome to get the old batteries adapted to be used in off-grid homes, where they could be of great use.
- greglindahl 12y ago
  Here's an example of SolarCity/Tesla using new batteries like that: https://gigaom.com/2012/04/17/tesla-solarcity-quietly-selling-building-battery-projects/ https://gigaom.com/2012/04/17/tesla-solarcity-quietly-sellin...
alexggordon 12y ago
Kudos to joesfresco for originating this idea[0], but after observing Tesla for the last couple of months, they're really developing car hardware, as though it was software, and it's continually winning me over as a better automobile "development" cycle. No car company has ever existed quite like Tesla, and I think this is almost the automobile 'iPhone' in the making. They've done three incredibly important things in this press release, that has taken me a bit to fully appreciate. First, they're the first car company that I know of that has offered serious vehicle improvements as a service, ever. Tesla is offering 40%-50% improvement on range. Imagine Ford coming out tomorrow and saying anyone can bring their cars in and we'll improve your MPG by 40%-50% for a few thousand. That's unreal. Second, to do this, they HAD to have looked at the possibility of just releasing a new and improved Roadster, with no upgrade kit. However, they not only actively made the decision to not do that, but to offer it as an "update" simply because they saw it as a bigger benefit to their users. This is a move on par with Tesla shipping the new hardware with cars coming off the assembly line, and then activating that hardware once it was announced [1]. Third, by doing this, Tesla, is training it's customers to recognize that Tesla's are a long-term investment. It's literally a punch right in the face of modern car manufacturers, letting them know that a new car every year is not the way we do business. They're saying that this car is not a product of a year of development, but a product of years of innovation and development. Suddenly, $70,000 for a car is a lot more justifiable if I know the manufacturer will be updating and improving my vehicle in 4 years still. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8556449 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8556449 [1] http://www.teslamotors.com/en_EU/forum/forums/autopilot-info-cars-delivered-w-new-hardware http://www.teslamotors.com/en_EU/forum/forums/autopilot-info...
- PinguTS 12y ago
  Nothing new. You can go the you Audi, BMW, Mercedes Dealer and "upgrade" your car with some features as long as no new hardware is required. It is quite common for some time, that a number of features are just a bit flip in the settings if it is enabled in your car or not. That is the reason why there is a whole industry around, which do things like "chip tuning". They just reverse engineered those things. May be you can't go to a dealer in the US. But that is related to a different market situation. I learned, in the US you buy that car that the dealer has in his show floor available. In Europe, especially in Germany I order my car to my like. I can also go to that dealer and "add" features afterwards.
PinguTS 12y ago
Tesla is a very good example of making good PR without anything specific new. They say, that they offer a performance package for an old model. But what is the real truth behind? 1. Improved battery performance: Everybody knows that batteries degrade over time. Batteries have to be replaced after some time. Batteries have a memory effect including Lithium Ion, even when the industry wants to tell a different story. Tesla is still offering replacement batteries for the Roadster. Because, if they would not, they would have a marketing problem. Tesla now decided to source the new cells in those battery packs. Which is a normal business decision, because the original battery pack was engineered at 2005/2006. That is almost 10 years ago. As such it is a normal business decision to source the new cells instead of sourcing the old cells with lower demand (increased prices). Reminder: any carmaker supports their car models >10 years. 2. Improved tires: Tires are improving year by year. The tires are not from Tesla. They are sourced from Godyear, Pirelli, Conti, or alike. I have to replace my tires every 3 to 4 years as they are loosing their condition and are not fit for the roads anymore. Of course, I always choose the latest the version with the latest technology. That is a thing of ongoing business. 3. improved body (CW): That is something you normally buy from some third party supplier, like AMG or Brabus for Mercedes, Alpine for BMW, … There is no such thing for Tesla, so Tesla made it himself. Disclaimer: electrical engineer with contacts from within the different carmakers and other industrial markets.
- zarkov99 12y ago
  Well, the improved range is pretty new, regardless of how they got there. 400 miles is ground breaking for an electric car.

169 points by cpwright 12y ago

"Should mention that a battery pack upgrade is not coming soon for the Model S, but it obviously will happen long-term." https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/548269323681529856 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/548269323681529856

cloudwalking 12y ago
Most likely the Model S already has many of the battery advancements that are now coming to the Roadster.
bjeanes 12y ago
Hrm... he deleted that tweet :/

sz4kerto 12y ago

"The original Roadster had a drag coefficient (Cd) of 0.36. Using modern computational methods we expect to make a 15% improvement, dropping the total Cd down to 0.31 with a retrofit aero kit." I wonder how's this going to affect the generated downforce (=> and, as a consequence, the aerodynamic grip). Cd for a F1 car is around 1.

tacos 12y ago
My Audi A6 has a Cd of 0.26. Comparing it to F1 makes no sense. They're open wheel.
- clamprecht 12y ago
  Not only are they open wheel, but they have intentional downforce that exceeds the weight of the entire car.
  - wmeredith 12y ago
    They also have 600 horsepower and pass a gas station every 45 seconds :) Why compare?
    - dripton 12y ago
      Current F1 rules do not allow in-race refueling. But, yeah, expensive purpose-built race cars have little in common with road cars.
      - wmeredith 12y ago
        Ah, I was thinking of Indy.
      - threeseed 12y ago
        > But, yeah, expensive purpose-built race cars have little in common with road cars I wouldn't say little. Many F1 technologies have made it into production road cars and the future of the sport will see this technology sharing increase. That's why there was the big engine change last year. And it wouldn't surprise me if their split turbocharger design that was responsible for Mercedes success makes it into their road cars.
- sz4kerto 12y ago
  It absolutely does make sense. F1 cars have high Cd because they need lots of downforce. An A6 does not need as high Cd as a sports car. So if a roadster's Cd goes down then the question arises: will it affect it's aerodynamic grip or not?
  - tacos 12y ago
    Since you're asking a math question the answer is "yes of course." However having owned an Elise and driven a Tesla Roadster I will confirm that strapping the equivalent in weight of an entire F1 car in batteries to the bottom of one removes aerodynamic handling from the bigger equation at play. They're fun as hell and also uncomfortable as fuck. 400 miles is more of an endurance test for the driver than the power supply. (Also, loved every second inside both of them!)
mrfusion 12y ago
Computional methods have improved that much in ten years?? Why aren't all cars doin this?
- tacos 12y ago
  They do: even pedestrian looking Audis and Mazdas from a few years ago beat this retrofit by quite some margin. And the Tesla Model S is 0.24.
  - mrfusion 12y ago
    So what was it we couldn't do ten years ago to get these same values?
    - tacos 12y ago
      In the case of Tesla you mean? One look at the Lotus Elise and you'll see they weren't exactly going for aerodynamics. Tesla barely survived the launch, so it wasn't going to happen back then. This is one of those "in hindsight" kind of things that never get fixed. The fact that Tesla is doing it says a LOT positive about them.
brudgers 12y ago
'Cd is a coefficient. It reflects the aerodynamic efficiency of the car relative to an equivalent frontal area oriented vertically [i.e. a brick]. An F1 car achieves efficiency by having a small frontal area and effectively directing drag forces. 0,5 square meters with a 'Cd of 1.0 creates less force than 2.0 square meters with a 'Cd of 0.3.
jigg4joe 12y ago
Is aerodynamic grip really relevant for a road car? Is anyone really turning at a speed fast enough for it to matter? If you want to improve grip for your road car, you tune the suspension and buy some nice tires. Lowering the Cd will definitely improve your milage, however.

spodek 12y ago

Someone somewhere is reacting with "We must further prevent them from selling in our state!" Actually, probably fifty people like that. Or rather organizations. And they'll work as hard as they can to keep this from consumers.

acangiano 12y ago
Don't you love the "free market until it actually creates competition for us" model?
- ams6110 12y ago
  Don't you love government regulation of the market until it affects something I want to buy?
  - hnnewguy 12y ago
    >Don't you love government regulation of the market until it affects something I want to buy? Precisely. Would Tesla even exist today without government subsidies? Nope. For that matter, neither would GM or Chrysler. Why are the majors seen as "evil", and Tesla as "good"? I don't understand that narrative whatsoever. I just want good electric cars, and couldn't care less who produces them.
    - icebraining 12y ago
      Would Tesla even exist today without government subsidies? Nope. What makes you so sure? Obviously the cars would be more expensive, but then again so would their competitors'.
    - enraged_camel 12y ago
      Because in almost any market, incumbents do everything they can to prevent newcomers from establishing a foothold in the market. A current example of this is the proxy war the established automakers are fighting against Tesla via their dealerships, who are pressuring their local politicians to ban Tesla from selling directly to consumers in various states. >>I just want good electric cars, and couldn't care less who produces them. The world would be a better place if people cared about who is producing the stuff they buy, and how. Just a thought.

kenrikm 12y ago

If Tesla continues to follow this route it will have lasting implications for the automotive industry. Instead of replacing" your car every 5-10 years you can "Upgrade" keeping existing chassis but replacing enough to make it "Like New" (Refurb vs Replace) Automakers sell a completely new car just to make a few thousand dollars every 5-10 years and that's only if the customer stays loyal (Also why some car companies have loyalty incentives) in this case Tesla can still make that income and the customer is locked in as a bonus this will help to keep resale values high since there will be less cars on the market because owners upgrade instead of selling. Now more then ever I wish I bought Tesla stock before it went through the roof.

chatmasta 12y ago
Automakers lock consumers into rebill programs via debt, i.e. a car loan. Tesla locks consumers into rebill via equity, i.e. a nice car, conveniently iteratively upgradeable. Thus Tesla gains capital advantage because it has no liability after disposing of a car asset, while automakers generate debt liability. For every car manufactured, automakers create a liability for themselves, while Tesla creates an automated income stream. Consequently cash flows better in Tesla than in its competitors. Relative to that of automakers, Tesla cash flow increases exponentially. Tesla is competing on a different level. The automakers will be lucky to earn a spot on Tesla's platform. At the very least, Tesla has a first-mover advantage in a surprisingly new market.
- ams6110 12y ago
  You're saying people don't debt-finance Teslas?
  - pinot 12y ago
    Sure they do, but someone who bought a Roaster in 2008 surely has it paid off by now. However unlike every other manufacturer that forgets about the vehicles it used to make (unless there's a recall), Tesla is improving existing products. I have a 2004 SUV with a 7" satnav in it and some god-awful software package. Does Acura offer an upgrade path for this? Other than a way to update the roads database, no. Buy a new SUV.

finid 12y ago

> ... we can achieve a predicted 40-50% improvement on range between the original Roadster and Roadster 3.0. There is a set of speeds and driving conditions where we can confidently drive the Roadster 3.0 over 400 miles. That has been the range where I'll even begin to consider a car of that sort. I'm seriously rooting for Tesla.

mcot2 12y ago
Range is less important to me than ease and availability of recharging or refueling.
- finid 12y ago
  Not if recharging takes hours. If you combine a decent range (400+ miles) with a fast recharge time, say, an hour or less, then you've got a real winner.
  - waterlesscloud 12y ago
    Not sure why this is downvoted. What you've stated are the magic numbers for widespread electric car use. 400 mile range with sub-hour recharge. Shouldn't really be a controversial point.
    - finid 12y ago
      You see, for some people, being able to downvote a comment is a power thing, so I don't take it personally. If I have a point to make, I'll do just that. Let the down-voters have fun. I expect this comment to be down-voted too.
greglindahl 12y ago
People who actually own Teslas are, on the whole, less fanatic than you are about range. If you can charge in your home garage, then you start every morning with a full battery. How many days do you drive more than 265 miles? And for long trips, there's the supercharger network, and the first battery swap station is in beta along the SF/LA route.

xasos 12y ago

>Roadster upgrade will enable non-stop travel from LA to SF -- almost 400 mile range. Details tmrw. Merry Christmas! (https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/548269323681529856 https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/548269323681529856) I think this is super awesome. The fact that range is up from 265 miles to 400 is a great accomplishment. I look forward to seeing what the Tesla team will be doing in the upcoming years.

Timmmmmm 12y ago
That's actually pretty significant. I doubt anyone would want to drive more than 400 miles in a day. You can almost get between any two points in England with that range.
- waterlesscloud 12y ago
  400 miles wouldn't even get me to my brother's place in the next state over. More than 400 miles in a day is common in US roadtripping. On the other hand, breaking up those long driving days with a reasonable recharging period would be more than OK.
  - grobinson 12y ago
    I think for many Europeans it's easy to forget just how big USA and Canada are. I've been on vacation (we just call it holiday) where we've driven SF -> Yosemite -> Las Vegas -> Arizona -> LA, and on another trip DC -> Virginia -> Charleston -> Savannah -> DC, and both times I've forgotten just how long it takes to get anywhere. I suspect this is why so many people fly domestic?
- tcskeptic 12y ago
  Every summer I drive my family home 928 miles in a single day from our vacation house in Florida.
  - jedberg 12y ago
    Sure, but you probably take a 45 minute break somewhere in there to "recharge" your body, so recharging your car isn't that big a deal.

NDizzle 12y ago

I wouldn't think that a roadster is the correct vehicle for LRR tires. I had them on my 1st gen Insight and they are terrible, terrible things from a performance point of view.

maxerickson 12y ago
It could be a thing where they choose a tire that maintains sufficient performance at a lower rolling resistance.
- ams6110 12y ago
  A Tesla (especially a Roadster) is a performance car though. Extreme LRR tires are not what most buyers are going to want.
vkat 12y ago
Agree. We have them on our 2012 Camry hybrid and they are terrible. Tread is almost gone at 24000 miles and road grip is the worst. The tires squeal while reversing because of the turn radius. Maybe there is a better tire brand but I will be opting out of LRR when we have to replace the tires.

ktzar 12y ago

It'd be awesome to get the old batteries adapted to be used in off-grid homes, where they could be of great use.

greglindahl 12y ago
Here's an example of SolarCity/Tesla using new batteries like that: https://gigaom.com/2012/04/17/tesla-solarcity-quietly-selling-building-battery-projects/ https://gigaom.com/2012/04/17/tesla-solarcity-quietly-sellin...

alexggordon 12y ago

Kudos to joesfresco for originating this idea[0], but after observing Tesla for the last couple of months, they're really developing car hardware, as though it was software, and it's continually winning me over as a better automobile "development" cycle. No car company has ever existed quite like Tesla, and I think this is almost the automobile 'iPhone' in the making. They've done three incredibly important things in this press release, that has taken me a bit to fully appreciate. First, they're the first car company that I know of that has offered serious vehicle improvements as a service, ever. Tesla is offering 40%-50% improvement on range. Imagine Ford coming out tomorrow and saying anyone can bring their cars in and we'll improve your MPG by 40%-50% for a few thousand. That's unreal. Second, to do this, they HAD to have looked at the possibility of just releasing a new and improved Roadster, with no upgrade kit. However, they not only actively made the decision to not do that, but to offer it as an "update" simply because they saw it as a bigger benefit to their users. This is a move on par with Tesla shipping the new hardware with cars coming off the assembly line, and then activating that hardware once it was announced [1]. Third, by doing this, Tesla, is training it's customers to recognize that Tesla's are a long-term investment. It's literally a punch right in the face of modern car manufacturers, letting them know that a new car every year is not the way we do business. They're saying that this car is not a product of a year of development, but a product of years of innovation and development. Suddenly, $70,000 for a car is a lot more justifiable if I know the manufacturer will be updating and improving my vehicle in 4 years still. [0] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8556449 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=8556449 [1] http://www.teslamotors.com/en_EU/forum/forums/autopilot-info-cars-delivered-w-new-hardware http://www.teslamotors.com/en_EU/forum/forums/autopilot-info...

PinguTS 12y ago
Nothing new. You can go the you Audi, BMW, Mercedes Dealer and "upgrade" your car with some features as long as no new hardware is required. It is quite common for some time, that a number of features are just a bit flip in the settings if it is enabled in your car or not. That is the reason why there is a whole industry around, which do things like "chip tuning". They just reverse engineered those things. May be you can't go to a dealer in the US. But that is related to a different market situation. I learned, in the US you buy that car that the dealer has in his show floor available. In Europe, especially in Germany I order my car to my like. I can also go to that dealer and "add" features afterwards.

PinguTS 12y ago

Tesla is a very good example of making good PR without anything specific new. They say, that they offer a performance package for an old model. But what is the real truth behind? 1. Improved battery performance: Everybody knows that batteries degrade over time. Batteries have to be replaced after some time. Batteries have a memory effect including Lithium Ion, even when the industry wants to tell a different story. Tesla is still offering replacement batteries for the Roadster. Because, if they would not, they would have a marketing problem. Tesla now decided to source the new cells in those battery packs. Which is a normal business decision, because the original battery pack was engineered at 2005/2006. That is almost 10 years ago. As such it is a normal business decision to source the new cells instead of sourcing the old cells with lower demand (increased prices). Reminder: any carmaker supports their car models >10 years. 2. Improved tires: Tires are improving year by year. The tires are not from Tesla. They are sourced from Godyear, Pirelli, Conti, or alike. I have to replace my tires every 3 to 4 years as they are loosing their condition and are not fit for the roads anymore. Of course, I always choose the latest the version with the latest technology. That is a thing of ongoing business. 3. improved body (CW): That is something you normally buy from some third party supplier, like AMG or Brabus for Mercedes, Alpine for BMW, … There is no such thing for Tesla, so Tesla made it himself. Disclaimer: electrical engineer with contacts from within the different carmakers and other industrial markets.

zarkov99 12y ago
Well, the improved range is pretty new, regardless of how they got there. 400 miles is ground breaking for an electric car.