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Super excited to see FFOS getting launched in Japan! Also, glad that FFOS is on a higher spec phone, should deter some of the detractors. People often scoff/d

Super excited to see FFOS getting launched in Japan! Also, glad that FFOS is on a higher spec phone, should deter some of the detractors. People often scoff/don't understand when I explain it to them, but I run FFOS (I have the Flame) because I (want to) support Mozilla and everything they stand for.

msh 12y ago
Bit Mozilla needs to create a product good enough that people who don't care about what they stand for want it. Firefox was not a success because it was open but because it was the best browser on the market (but being open was properly a contributing factor to that).
- scrollaway 12y ago
  Indeed. I have the Flame as well and I'd love to use it... but the truth is, as an operating system, Firefox OS is just so worthless. I tried sending UX reports to the team but it really feels hopeless at this point :( Wish them luck though. Congrats on the release.
  - zbraniecki 12y ago
    disclaimer: I work on FxOS Care to elaborate why hopeless? I Use Flame as my second device and while I totally agree that there's a lot of work needed before FxOS "feels" as polished as Android or iOS, I don't feel like it is hopeless. Remember Android 2.0? What a piece of.. ehm.. unpolished mobile OS it was? FxOS 2.2 is significantly more useful than any 1.x. p.s. If you also have any basic webdev skills, you can fix UX yourself. I miss charging time notification on lockscreen and I started working on it yesterday [1] - fairly easy to add. We just need webdevs to help us hack :) [1] https://github.com/zbraniecki/gaia/commit/a7829b7f4750e294b315a35eebe65abea5847736 https://github.com/zbraniecki/gaia/commit/a7829b7f4750e294b3...
    - scrollaway 12y ago
      [Disclaimer: I am indirectly affiliated with Mozilla - I'm also an UX dev in addition to a programmer] I don't just remember Android 2.0: I have an HTC Desire phone running it (it can't upgrade any further due to its limited hard drive space). First impressions are awful: The Flame feels slow and extremely unpolished (the stretching is ridiculous, no progress bars in the system updates and other places, hard-to-find text-only buttons, missing fade-out effects...). The screenshot gesture/keybind that triggers almost every time I unlock the phone. Confusing wording all over the place. Performance issues everywhere, even on the lock screen and camera, etc etc. These are just some the ones I gathered in the first couple of hours. I stopped writing them down... and I stopped using the phone altogether after two days. I wanted, I really wanted to contribute to it but the amount of basic UX issues made me feel like there is little QA/UX being done at all. My FOSS time is limited. I have a job in FOSS, and I do LXQt work in my off time (in addition to personal project). Being put in front of Firefox OS made me feel like what you guys needed were more full-time UX devs on it, not an assorted basket of contributions. This is why it felt very hopeless to me. This was a couple of months ago. I have to admit I did not update since, the phone just went unused. Upgrading it is on my TODO some time in the next few months, unless you tell me things radically improved since.
      - hardwaresofton 12y ago
        Do you know what version you were running? There was a recently an upgrade to 2.0, and I have to say that it is pretty amazing. Definitely a lot better than 1.3. They went a drastically different way with the home screen (I say drastic, but they basically went from horizontal scroll to vertical scroll, but that's a pretty drastic UX change), and I think the UI is much better and much more consistent.
      - zbraniecki 12y ago
        Which version are you describing? As I said, I use "nightly" 2.2 and it is drastically different experienxe (altough still fairly raw) than 1.3/1.4. I used android G1 (same as your dream). Do you claim it was smoother? Faster? More polished?
  - daleharvey 12y ago
    Hi My email is dale@arandomurl.com, I am trying to improve the feedback flow between users and development of the OS, if you could email me about particular issues or how you would fine your feedback best sent / replied to I would really appreciate it Thanks Dale
    - scrollaway 12y ago
      Thanks - This was all the immediate feedback I could give. I actually was given a few emails I could send my thoughts to, and I found the feedback flow to be just fine. The problem was with the AMOUNT of feedback to send.
SwellJoe 12y ago
This. I'm happy to put up with some mild inconvenience to move toward more open ecosystems. I have predominantly used Linux since 1995 (since long before Linux was nice on the desktop), and as Firefox OS devices make their way to the US, I'll likely migrate off of Android. Also, Firefox, the browser, is really firing on all cylinders these days. The developer edition is awesome, syncing is awesome and works across all devices (I use Firefox on phone, tablet, and Linux and Windows). And, most importantly, I trust Mozilla more than any other browser provider. I store a lot of stuff with Google, Amazon, Facebook, and Flickr, but I'm not entirely happy about it (to varying degrees).
- peatmoss 12y ago
  Is the sandboxing released into public builds yet? I've been sort of holding off on making the jump back to FF until that happens. Still champing at the bit a little for precisely the reasons you mention. Firefox is worthy of support simply by virtue of being both open, and supported by an organization whose motives aren't intrinsically suspect.
  - agapos 12y ago
    Not yet. Sandbox is heavily tied to e10s aka. electrolysis, what is planned for Fx39 (meaning that we should expect it for Fx41+).
  - SwellJoe 12y ago
    For what it's worth, Firefox has been somewhat more stable for me than Chrome on Linux lately (there are other reasons to want the sandboxing, but stability is one of them). Now that Flash is so much less common than it was a few years ago, the instances where my browser dies due to a misbehaving plugin have dropped to almost none. Also, the only reason I ever start Chrome is to watch Netflix or other sites that won't work in Firefox (I still had to tweak the user agent to claim to be something different to convince Netflix to work); so it's possibly not surprising that it crashes more than Firefox. And, of course, it's anecdotal.
    - 12y ago
pjmlp 12y ago
I rather prefer Mozilla to spend resources on Servo and Rust. Symbian web widgets, WebOS, ChromeOS, Chrome Packaged Apps, ... We have already seen it multiple times already, it always fails to impress.
- getsat 12y ago
  Yes, this! Rust (and by proxy, Servo) shows the most promise out of everything listed on that recent "Mozilla Projects" link. I will hopefully be able to contribute back to Rust a bit once I'm a bit more skilled with it.
- hardwaresofton 12y ago
  I respectfully disagree. While I absolutely love Rust and Servo, I think Mozilla needs more consumer-facing products. Rust and servo get you dev-props, but they need more of the non-developer populace to recognize Mozilla and support them. I would think a reaction like "oh Mozilla wants to me to sign some petition about net neutrality? they're that weird internet company that's all open or whatever, right?" is waaaay better than something like "Mozilla? what's that?". Also, I think what they're doing IS impressive. the platform they're attempting to build is in stark contrast to everything else that exists out there (Android, iOS, Blackberry) -- and it couldn't be simpler or more open (well, without sacrificing quality). They are the truest-to-open-source platform out there, I think that's impressive
listic 12y ago
I hope what it needs more of to be more responsive is RAM, not CPU. Or the 2.x release of OS. I have tried 512MB Alcatel Fire E in store and the keyboard felt laggy. I was happy for Mozilla that they finally got their phones in brick-and-mortar stores here in Russia. It was launched here in mid-Novemver, (finally, yay!), for 3990 rubles ~ $65; though the only ones I see in stores are of unlisted coffee brown color for some reason [1]. I am not sure I can actually recommend one, though, other that a geek's toy, because, even though carrier subsidy is all but unknown here, there already are cheap carrier-branded Android phones that are better value for the price. Or some non-branded ones, even: there is a choice of Android phones with similar hardware from reputable companies like Samsung, now! But of course, that's good news for Mozilla and I'm thinking of maybe importing this phone for me from Japan. Previously I was pinning for Alcatel Fire S, when (if?!) it will eventually be released (come on, it was announced in February!) http://www.gsmarena.com/alcatel_fire_s-6140.php http://www.gsmarena.com/alcatel_fire_s-6140.php [1] Megafon | Alcatel One Touch Fire E 6015X Chocolate http://spb.shop.megafon.ru/mobile/87125.html http://spb.shop.megafon.ru/mobile/87125.html

msh 12y ago

Bit Mozilla needs to create a product good enough that people who don't care about what they stand for want it. Firefox was not a success because it was open but because it was the best browser on the market (but being open was properly a contributing factor to that).

scrollaway 12y ago
Indeed. I have the Flame as well and I'd love to use it... but the truth is, as an operating system, Firefox OS is just so worthless. I tried sending UX reports to the team but it really feels hopeless at this point :( Wish them luck though. Congrats on the release.
- zbraniecki 12y ago
  disclaimer: I work on FxOS Care to elaborate why hopeless? I Use Flame as my second device and while I totally agree that there's a lot of work needed before FxOS "feels" as polished as Android or iOS, I don't feel like it is hopeless. Remember Android 2.0? What a piece of.. ehm.. unpolished mobile OS it was? FxOS 2.2 is significantly more useful than any 1.x. p.s. If you also have any basic webdev skills, you can fix UX yourself. I miss charging time notification on lockscreen and I started working on it yesterday [1] - fairly easy to add. We just need webdevs to help us hack :) [1] https://github.com/zbraniecki/gaia/commit/a7829b7f4750e294b315a35eebe65abea5847736 https://github.com/zbraniecki/gaia/commit/a7829b7f4750e294b3...
  - scrollaway 12y ago
    [Disclaimer: I am indirectly affiliated with Mozilla - I'm also an UX dev in addition to a programmer] I don't just remember Android 2.0: I have an HTC Desire phone running it (it can't upgrade any further due to its limited hard drive space). First impressions are awful: The Flame feels slow and extremely unpolished (the stretching is ridiculous, no progress bars in the system updates and other places, hard-to-find text-only buttons, missing fade-out effects...). The screenshot gesture/keybind that triggers almost every time I unlock the phone. Confusing wording all over the place. Performance issues everywhere, even on the lock screen and camera, etc etc. These are just some the ones I gathered in the first couple of hours. I stopped writing them down... and I stopped using the phone altogether after two days. I wanted, I really wanted to contribute to it but the amount of basic UX issues made me feel like there is little QA/UX being done at all. My FOSS time is limited. I have a job in FOSS, and I do LXQt work in my off time (in addition to personal project). Being put in front of Firefox OS made me feel like what you guys needed were more full-time UX devs on it, not an assorted basket of contributions. This is why it felt very hopeless to me. This was a couple of months ago. I have to admit I did not update since, the phone just went unused. Upgrading it is on my TODO some time in the next few months, unless you tell me things radically improved since.
    - hardwaresofton 12y ago
      Do you know what version you were running? There was a recently an upgrade to 2.0, and I have to say that it is pretty amazing. Definitely a lot better than 1.3. They went a drastically different way with the home screen (I say drastic, but they basically went from horizontal scroll to vertical scroll, but that's a pretty drastic UX change), and I think the UI is much better and much more consistent.
    - zbraniecki 12y ago
      Which version are you describing? As I said, I use "nightly" 2.2 and it is drastically different experienxe (altough still fairly raw) than 1.3/1.4. I used android G1 (same as your dream). Do you claim it was smoother? Faster? More polished?
- daleharvey 12y ago
  Hi My email is dale@arandomurl.com, I am trying to improve the feedback flow between users and development of the OS, if you could email me about particular issues or how you would fine your feedback best sent / replied to I would really appreciate it Thanks Dale
  - scrollaway 12y ago
    Thanks - This was all the immediate feedback I could give. I actually was given a few emails I could send my thoughts to, and I found the feedback flow to be just fine. The problem was with the AMOUNT of feedback to send.

SwellJoe 12y ago

This. I'm happy to put up with some mild inconvenience to move toward more open ecosystems. I have predominantly used Linux since 1995 (since long before Linux was nice on the desktop), and as Firefox OS devices make their way to the US, I'll likely migrate off of Android. Also, Firefox, the browser, is really firing on all cylinders these days. The developer edition is awesome, syncing is awesome and works across all devices (I use Firefox on phone, tablet, and Linux and Windows). And, most importantly, I trust Mozilla more than any other browser provider. I store a lot of stuff with Google, Amazon, Facebook, and Flickr, but I'm not entirely happy about it (to varying degrees).

peatmoss 12y ago
Is the sandboxing released into public builds yet? I've been sort of holding off on making the jump back to FF until that happens. Still champing at the bit a little for precisely the reasons you mention. Firefox is worthy of support simply by virtue of being both open, and supported by an organization whose motives aren't intrinsically suspect.
- agapos 12y ago
  Not yet. Sandbox is heavily tied to e10s aka. electrolysis, what is planned for Fx39 (meaning that we should expect it for Fx41+).
- SwellJoe 12y ago
  For what it's worth, Firefox has been somewhat more stable for me than Chrome on Linux lately (there are other reasons to want the sandboxing, but stability is one of them). Now that Flash is so much less common than it was a few years ago, the instances where my browser dies due to a misbehaving plugin have dropped to almost none. Also, the only reason I ever start Chrome is to watch Netflix or other sites that won't work in Firefox (I still had to tweak the user agent to claim to be something different to convince Netflix to work); so it's possibly not surprising that it crashes more than Firefox. And, of course, it's anecdotal.
  - 12y ago

pjmlp 12y ago

I rather prefer Mozilla to spend resources on Servo and Rust. Symbian web widgets, WebOS, ChromeOS, Chrome Packaged Apps, ... We have already seen it multiple times already, it always fails to impress.

getsat 12y ago
Yes, this! Rust (and by proxy, Servo) shows the most promise out of everything listed on that recent "Mozilla Projects" link. I will hopefully be able to contribute back to Rust a bit once I'm a bit more skilled with it.
hardwaresofton 12y ago
I respectfully disagree. While I absolutely love Rust and Servo, I think Mozilla needs more consumer-facing products. Rust and servo get you dev-props, but they need more of the non-developer populace to recognize Mozilla and support them. I would think a reaction like "oh Mozilla wants to me to sign some petition about net neutrality? they're that weird internet company that's all open or whatever, right?" is waaaay better than something like "Mozilla? what's that?". Also, I think what they're doing IS impressive. the platform they're attempting to build is in stark contrast to everything else that exists out there (Android, iOS, Blackberry) -- and it couldn't be simpler or more open (well, without sacrificing quality). They are the truest-to-open-source platform out there, I think that's impressive

listic 12y ago

I hope what it needs more of to be more responsive is RAM, not CPU. Or the 2.x release of OS. I have tried 512MB Alcatel Fire E in store and the keyboard felt laggy. I was happy for Mozilla that they finally got their phones in brick-and-mortar stores here in Russia. It was launched here in mid-Novemver, (finally, yay!), for 3990 rubles ~ $65; though the only ones I see in stores are of unlisted coffee brown color for some reason [1]. I am not sure I can actually recommend one, though, other that a geek's toy, because, even though carrier subsidy is all but unknown here, there already are cheap carrier-branded Android phones that are better value for the price. Or some non-branded ones, even: there is a choice of Android phones with similar hardware from reputable companies like Samsung, now! But of course, that's good news for Mozilla and I'm thinking of maybe importing this phone for me from Japan. Previously I was pinning for Alcatel Fire S, when (if?!) it will eventually be released (come on, it was announced in February!) http://www.gsmarena.com/alcatel_fire_s-6140.php http://www.gsmarena.com/alcatel_fire_s-6140.php [1] Megafon | Alcatel One Touch Fire E 6015X Chocolate http://spb.shop.megafon.ru/mobile/87125.html http://spb.shop.megafon.ru/mobile/87125.html