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> European states mobilized their populations with an efficiency that dazzled some Americans (notably Theodore Roosevelt) and appalled others (notably Wilson).
by pastProlog 12y ago
> European states mobilized their populations with an efficiency that dazzled some Americans (notably Theodore Roosevelt) and appalled others (notably Wilson).
Yes and no. People nowadays really don't even remember the end of World War I. Russian troops began shooting their officers and marching back to St. Petersburg and Moscow. Earlier that year were the massive Nivelle mutinies of French enlisted men. There were the German naval mutinies of 1918, followed by a powerful but ultimately failed revolution in Germany by communists (put down by the socialist-run government - echoes of the French communist party ending the 1968 left-communist uprising which caused de Gaulle to flee France). Hungarian workers had an uprising and established a Soviet republic in 1919, which lasted until it was defeated by an invasion by Romania. Italy saw the Biennio Rosso with factory occupations in Turin etc. which were finally ended when Mussolini marched on Rome in 1922. As late as 1976 the Italian communist party was getting over 1/3 of the vote in Italy, with the Socialist party (with a hammer and sickle emblem) getting 9% of the vote, and the left-communist Maoists getting over half a million votes (never mind the non-voting anarchists/autonomists).
Europe mobilized its population twice in the twentieth century. The first time Russia became communist, the second time everything east of Steppin to Trieste became communist. With Europe needing the US with NATO, Marshall plan, Gladio etc. to keep post-WWI western Europe (Spain, Italy and France) from becoming communist. Eventually Europe's capitalists learned going to war with one another's countries didn't help them all that much.
- philwelch 12y ago> Europe mobilized its population twice in the twentieth century. The first time Russia became communist, the second time everything east of Steppin to Trieste became socialist. I like how you gloss over the fact that Russian occupation and military domination of eastern Europe, rather than populist uprising of leftist movements, is what caused the latter.
- pastProlog 12y agoLike the glossed over fact that US occupation and military domination of Italy, rather than populist uprising, is what kept Italy with its economic system undisturbed? The US didn't even try to hide what it was doing during the fixed elections of 1948, by the time of Gladio, P2, strategy of tension etc. it had become a little more hidden. The US still occupies Italy with seven military bases which alternately has hot dog pilots killing civilians ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cavalese_cable_car_disaster_%281998%29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cavalese_cable_car_disaster_%28... ) when they're not kidnapping Arab nationalists ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Omar_case http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Omar_case ). Hungary established a soviet republic on its own in 1919, so it's obvious there was a populist wellstream of worker's organizations to pull from. It's also obvious the post-1945 Hungarian people's republic was a popular government - if it wasn't, the USSR wouldn't have had to invade Hungary in 1956. Because Imre Nagy would have never become prime minister if the USSR had imposed the government by Russian occupation and military domination.
- deleted 12y ago[deleted]
- philwelch 12y agoAh, tu quoque and moral equivalence, the last resort of any apologist for communism.