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Regards to him hiding out in the embassy, it really irritates me when he refers to this as 'house arrest' or 'detained without charge'. He is there of his own

Regards to him hiding out in the embassy, it really irritates me when he refers to this as 'house arrest' or 'detained without charge'. He is there of his own free will. He can leave at any time. He chooses not to as he is a coward.

Pyxl101 12y ago
If he attempts to leave his domicile, won't he immediately be arrested? That is the impression I was under. It's the same scenario as someone under house arrest. When you're under house arrest, typically there is not an armed guard preventing you from leaving (although this is sometimes required by a court). Rather, you have the ability to leave your house, but if you do, then you will be arrested. I can see why he would consider the situation equivalent to house arrest. [Edit: moving my other comments about the Assange case to a separate reply]
- Pyxl101 12y ago
  I am not sure how I feel about Assange hiding in the embassy. I've read about the circumstances leading up to his extradition request, and I can understand why he would believe that the prosecution is at least in part politically motivated. Please review the evidence below before you make up your mind. Timeline of the scenario: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11949341 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11949341 An arrest warrant was issued on August 20, 2010. The next day, Stockholm chief prosecutor Eva Finne reviewed the charges and canceled them. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11049316 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11049316 > Chief Prosecutor Eva Finne dismissed the 'rape' investigation altogether: “I have discontinued the preliminary investigation of the charge (sic) originally designated as rape. There is no suspicion of any crime whatsoever.” https://wikileaks.org/IMG/html/Affidavit_of_Julian_Assange.html#efmNOcOWN https://wikileaks.org/IMG/html/Affidavit_of_Julian_Assange.h... Assange is interviewed by police, released, and allow to leave the country. After he's left the country, on September 1, the decision was overridden by the Swedish Director of Prosecution, who reopens the case against him. > The woman of whom Mr. Assange is accused of the offence of "lesser rape" (a technical term in Swedish law) sent an SMS to a friend saying that she "did not want to accuse JA [of] anything" and "it was the police who made up the charges". The other woman tweeted in 2013 that she had never been raped. Both women’s testimonies say that they consented to the sex. [S]enior prosecutor [Finne] already dismissed the ’rape’ accusation, saying that there were no grounds for accusing Mr. Assange on this basis. But a third prosecutor, lobbied by a politician who was running for attorney general, took over the investigation and resurrected the accusations against Mr. Assange. https://justice4assange.com/ https://justice4assange.com/ [note that this is not a credible news site, but it links to further sources and legal documents such as https://wikileaks.org/IMG/html/Affidavit_of_Julian_Assange.html#efmNOcOWN https://wikileaks.org/IMG/html/Affidavit_of_Julian_Assange.h... ] That politician is Claes Borgström, a also a lawyer. He allegedly applied pressure to reopen the case and become the women's lawyer, and was interested only in media spotlight: > One of two women who accused Julian Assange of sex crimes moved to fire her controversial lawyer Claes Borgstrom late last month after she lost faith in his ability to represent her. [She] charged that Borgstrom was more interested in being in the media spotlight than providing her legal counsel, and has often referred her inquiries to his secretary or assistant. http://rt.com/news/assange-prosecutor-judge-speech-992/ http://rt.com/news/assange-prosecutor-judge-speech-992/ There seem to be a number of unusual or suspicious aspects to the overall case, that give me the impression that its motivations include something beyond the pursuit of justice.
niels_olson 12y ago
> He chooses not to as he is a coward It's pretty clear that the UK would arrest him the second he walked out the door and promptly turn him over to the US. The US has made it quite clear, vis-a-vis Manning, Drake, Binning, etc, that he would have a very bad time ahead of him, and possibly see everything he has attempted to accomplish shuttered and turned against him. In any case, his signal would surely be reduced to zero. Snowden likewise chose asylum. Are they both cowards? Perhaps an alternative narrative is that these new political asylum seekrs are both using their asylum as so many asylum seekers have: as a chance to amplify their signal.
- rtpg 12y ago
  >It's pretty clear that the UK would arrest him the second he walked out the door and promptly turn him over to the US How is this clear? A warrant for his arrest is for extradition to Sweden. In the case that the US wants to get him, he would then have to get the permission of the UK and of Sweden. Last I check Assange doesn't have a warrant for an extradition to the US
  - revscat 12y ago
    Why on Earth would you think a lack of a warrant would matter? This is the US government we are talking about here. Absconding people to put them in Gitmo, or CIA black sites, or simply executed, are all techniques used regularly and without hesitation. Last I checked the U.S. does not care about warrants, especially against foreign nationals.
    - alex_hitchins 12y ago
      So why don't they enter the embassy and extricate him forcibly then?
      - revscat 12y ago
        My guess is because this is a highly visible incident, and doing so would violate the deeply entrenched norms regarding the sovereignty of embassies. The blowback would be severe. Assange is also white and not a Muslim.
woah 12y ago
He's hiding out from a regime that has demonstrated a willingness to torture him and violates the Geneva convention and other international law with impunity. I'm not sure where you have gotten the idea that he is a coward. Clearly, he is braver than me, you, or most of the other posters in this thread.
- alex_hitchins 12y ago
  I don't see what he has done that was brave. Manning, Snowdon etc. are genuine brave people acting selflessly to try and make a change. Assange is a politician first and foremost looking after his own image and self before anything else. Plenty of people who knew/know him will attest to this.
techrat 12y ago
Name one other incident where an international manhunt was conducted for what basically amounted to a groping charge. Also, from Wiki: Assange’s lawyers have invited the Swedish prosecutor four times to come and question him at the embassy, but the offer has been refused. So far the UK Police has spent over 6 Million Pounds keeping a stakeout on Assange. You really think this is as simple as him refusing to face sexual charges in Sweden?
- alex_hitchins 12y ago
  >for what basically amounted to a groping charge. Are you implying that groping isn't worth a criminal charge? I hope not. >Also, from Wiki: Assange’s lawyers have invited the Swedish prosecutor four times to come and question him at the embassy, but the offer has been refused. How kind of him to be so accommodating! >So far the UK Police has spent over 6 Million Pounds keeping a stakeout on Assange. As a UK National and UK taxpayer I am frustrated by this waste of money. Remove the coppers from the door, it's not like he can get out the country. >You really think this is as simple as him refusing to face sexual charges in Sweden? Yes
  - skj 12y ago
    > Are you implying that groping isn't worth a criminal charge? I hope not. GP is implying, as was quite clear in the comment, that it isn't worth an international manhunt.
    - foldr 12y ago
      There is no international manhunt. There's a perfectly ordinary extradition order which the police will enforce if they get the chance. If they didn't enforce it, they'd either making a special exception for Assange or indicating that they are generally unwilling to enforce legally-obtained extradition orders (neither of which is a reasonable thing to expect the police to do).
      - techrat 12y ago
        >Assange has said he would go to Sweden if provided with a diplomatic guarantee that he would not be turned over to the United States[70] but the Swedish foreign ministry stated that Sweden's legislation does not allow any judicial decision like extradition to be predetermined. They could make an exception. They won't.
dredmorbius 12y ago
Note the etymology and root of "arrest". To be "arrested" is not synonymous with being gaoled. Instead, it is to be denied of freedom to move and act at will. "To stop; to check or hinder the motion or action of; as, to arrest the current of a river; to arrest the senses." In that sense, Assange has very much been "arrested", if not directly taken into custody.

Pyxl101 12y ago

If he attempts to leave his domicile, won't he immediately be arrested? That is the impression I was under. It's the same scenario as someone under house arrest. When you're under house arrest, typically there is not an armed guard preventing you from leaving (although this is sometimes required by a court). Rather, you have the ability to leave your house, but if you do, then you will be arrested. I can see why he would consider the situation equivalent to house arrest. [Edit: moving my other comments about the Assange case to a separate reply]

Pyxl101 12y ago
I am not sure how I feel about Assange hiding in the embassy. I've read about the circumstances leading up to his extradition request, and I can understand why he would believe that the prosecution is at least in part politically motivated. Please review the evidence below before you make up your mind. Timeline of the scenario: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11949341 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11949341 An arrest warrant was issued on August 20, 2010. The next day, Stockholm chief prosecutor Eva Finne reviewed the charges and canceled them. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11049316 http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-11049316 > Chief Prosecutor Eva Finne dismissed the 'rape' investigation altogether: “I have discontinued the preliminary investigation of the charge (sic) originally designated as rape. There is no suspicion of any crime whatsoever.” https://wikileaks.org/IMG/html/Affidavit_of_Julian_Assange.html#efmNOcOWN https://wikileaks.org/IMG/html/Affidavit_of_Julian_Assange.h... Assange is interviewed by police, released, and allow to leave the country. After he's left the country, on September 1, the decision was overridden by the Swedish Director of Prosecution, who reopens the case against him. > The woman of whom Mr. Assange is accused of the offence of "lesser rape" (a technical term in Swedish law) sent an SMS to a friend saying that she "did not want to accuse JA [of] anything" and "it was the police who made up the charges". The other woman tweeted in 2013 that she had never been raped. Both women’s testimonies say that they consented to the sex. [S]enior prosecutor [Finne] already dismissed the ’rape’ accusation, saying that there were no grounds for accusing Mr. Assange on this basis. But a third prosecutor, lobbied by a politician who was running for attorney general, took over the investigation and resurrected the accusations against Mr. Assange. https://justice4assange.com/ https://justice4assange.com/ [note that this is not a credible news site, but it links to further sources and legal documents such as https://wikileaks.org/IMG/html/Affidavit_of_Julian_Assange.html#efmNOcOWN https://wikileaks.org/IMG/html/Affidavit_of_Julian_Assange.h... ] That politician is Claes Borgström, a also a lawyer. He allegedly applied pressure to reopen the case and become the women's lawyer, and was interested only in media spotlight: > One of two women who accused Julian Assange of sex crimes moved to fire her controversial lawyer Claes Borgstrom late last month after she lost faith in his ability to represent her. [She] charged that Borgstrom was more interested in being in the media spotlight than providing her legal counsel, and has often referred her inquiries to his secretary or assistant. http://rt.com/news/assange-prosecutor-judge-speech-992/ http://rt.com/news/assange-prosecutor-judge-speech-992/ There seem to be a number of unusual or suspicious aspects to the overall case, that give me the impression that its motivations include something beyond the pursuit of justice.

niels_olson 12y ago

> He chooses not to as he is a coward It's pretty clear that the UK would arrest him the second he walked out the door and promptly turn him over to the US. The US has made it quite clear, vis-a-vis Manning, Drake, Binning, etc, that he would have a very bad time ahead of him, and possibly see everything he has attempted to accomplish shuttered and turned against him. In any case, his signal would surely be reduced to zero. Snowden likewise chose asylum. Are they both cowards? Perhaps an alternative narrative is that these new political asylum seekrs are both using their asylum as so many asylum seekers have: as a chance to amplify their signal.

rtpg 12y ago
>It's pretty clear that the UK would arrest him the second he walked out the door and promptly turn him over to the US How is this clear? A warrant for his arrest is for extradition to Sweden. In the case that the US wants to get him, he would then have to get the permission of the UK and of Sweden. Last I check Assange doesn't have a warrant for an extradition to the US
- revscat 12y ago
  Why on Earth would you think a lack of a warrant would matter? This is the US government we are talking about here. Absconding people to put them in Gitmo, or CIA black sites, or simply executed, are all techniques used regularly and without hesitation. Last I checked the U.S. does not care about warrants, especially against foreign nationals.
  - alex_hitchins 12y ago
    So why don't they enter the embassy and extricate him forcibly then?
    - revscat 12y ago
      My guess is because this is a highly visible incident, and doing so would violate the deeply entrenched norms regarding the sovereignty of embassies. The blowback would be severe. Assange is also white and not a Muslim.

woah 12y ago

He's hiding out from a regime that has demonstrated a willingness to torture him and violates the Geneva convention and other international law with impunity. I'm not sure where you have gotten the idea that he is a coward. Clearly, he is braver than me, you, or most of the other posters in this thread.

alex_hitchins 12y ago
I don't see what he has done that was brave. Manning, Snowdon etc. are genuine brave people acting selflessly to try and make a change. Assange is a politician first and foremost looking after his own image and self before anything else. Plenty of people who knew/know him will attest to this.

techrat 12y ago

Name one other incident where an international manhunt was conducted for what basically amounted to a groping charge. Also, from Wiki: Assange’s lawyers have invited the Swedish prosecutor four times to come and question him at the embassy, but the offer has been refused. So far the UK Police has spent over 6 Million Pounds keeping a stakeout on Assange. You really think this is as simple as him refusing to face sexual charges in Sweden?

alex_hitchins 12y ago
>for what basically amounted to a groping charge. Are you implying that groping isn't worth a criminal charge? I hope not. >Also, from Wiki: Assange’s lawyers have invited the Swedish prosecutor four times to come and question him at the embassy, but the offer has been refused. How kind of him to be so accommodating! >So far the UK Police has spent over 6 Million Pounds keeping a stakeout on Assange. As a UK National and UK taxpayer I am frustrated by this waste of money. Remove the coppers from the door, it's not like he can get out the country. >You really think this is as simple as him refusing to face sexual charges in Sweden? Yes
- skj 12y ago
  > Are you implying that groping isn't worth a criminal charge? I hope not. GP is implying, as was quite clear in the comment, that it isn't worth an international manhunt.
  - foldr 12y ago
    There is no international manhunt. There's a perfectly ordinary extradition order which the police will enforce if they get the chance. If they didn't enforce it, they'd either making a special exception for Assange or indicating that they are generally unwilling to enforce legally-obtained extradition orders (neither of which is a reasonable thing to expect the police to do).
    - techrat 12y ago
      >Assange has said he would go to Sweden if provided with a diplomatic guarantee that he would not be turned over to the United States[70] but the Swedish foreign ministry stated that Sweden's legislation does not allow any judicial decision like extradition to be predetermined. They could make an exception. They won't.

dredmorbius 12y ago

Note the etymology and root of "arrest". To be "arrested" is not synonymous with being gaoled. Instead, it is to be denied of freedom to move and act at will. "To stop; to check or hinder the motion or action of; as, to arrest the current of a river; to arrest the senses." In that sense, Assange has very much been "arrested", if not directly taken into custody.