3 ms·

It's got nothing to do with cost, which is IMHO a complete canard. Spec for spec, MacBooks are actually quite competitive in the market in which they compete[0]

by sbuk 12y ago

It's got nothing to do with cost, which is IMHO a complete canard. Spec for spec, MacBooks are actually quite competitive in the market in which they compete[0]. I'd love to see a linux based laptop that is as well integrated and as well made as a Mac. It'd be great if it wasn't fugly too. If it's cheaper, that's a bonus, but in all honesty, I've yet to find a brand new laptop that costs less that £700 that isn't a piece of junk. Below that price, all sorts of noticeable compromises are made; from screen resolution to overall build quality. [0]I do a lot of procurement in my current job and spec for spec, Macbook Pros actually sit in the middle of the market place based on cost and I argue that they are placed higher in terms of build quality than most other brands too. Extensibility is where they fall down massively, but then after 3 year, all our machines are retired anyway, by which time they are financially written off. For the record, I buy HP zBooks which are more expensive than Macs and in my experience not as well integrated with Windows or Linux.

abandonliberty 12y ago
As a veteran system builder, I was rather surprised when I looked into laptops recently to find macbooks very competitive. I dislike Apple as an organization due to their marketing practices, closed ecosystem, and apparent lack of respect for their customers demonstrated in their reaction to bend/antenna gate. Apple even works hard to hide what processors their systems are actually running! After much digging, though the hardware costs slightly more, MBPs come out far ahead as a package with OS X - a full featured OS with a healthy ecosystem and excellent battery life. I couldn't find a better option for my intended user.
zanny 12y ago
I keep seeing nice Chromebooks with IPS displays and usually unibody plastic build construction. Sub the plastic for aluminum and it shouldn't add more than $100 to the ticket price. Make the keyboard good for another $50. That is only like $500 now, so we want some actual storage in this device, so throw in a 512GB SSD and call it a day at $700 with a Haswell dual core.
- sbuk 12y ago
  >> Sub the plastic for aluminum and it shouldn't add more than $100 to the ticket price. You'll be surprised! I'd suggest closer to $200. >> Make the keyboard good for another $50 Agreed. >> ...throw in a 512GB SSD and call it a day at $700 with a Haswell dual core. Can't argue with the storage, but the CPU is still not an i5/7 and the graphics card isn't Intel Iris/nVidia class. Add those in and we're beginning to hit Macbook price territory. Throw in a decent trackpad and a hi-res screen, and were there. Actually, it'd give us one of these; https://play.google.com/store/devices/details?id=chromebook_pixel_wifi https://play.google.com/store/devices/details?id=chromebook_... which cost £200 more than a MacBook Air and £50 more than the base model MacBook Pro Retina. Alright, the Pixel has a better screen with touch, but the Air has better graphics and more storage and the Pro blows the both out of the water in performance terms, so on balance I'd argue that the MacBook Pro is better value than both the Air and the Pixel.
  - pbz 12y ago
    $200 just for an aluminum case? The price of aluminum is under $1 per pound. Where do you get that amount?
    - sbuk 12y ago
      Raw Aluminium needs to be processed. Even as ingots, there is a considerable amount of manufacturing required to form and make it into a sturdy enough case. As illustrated by the pricer point of the Pixel, my guesstimate seems closer than the original $100 - if anything I'm also a bit too low...
      - pbz 12y ago
        $200 is ridiculously high, even $100 is too much. $200 is the estimated bill of materials for the entire iPhone6 (which uses aluminum). I wasn't able to find an estimate for the MBP case, but Ford's cost of changing F-150 to aluminum (for an entire truck!!) is $500: http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2014/11/fords-switch-to-aluminum-f-150-increases-costs-500-a-truck.html http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2014/11/fords-switch-to-aluminu...
DanBC 12y ago
I go to a consumer website. I select laptops priced between £500 and £750 (this includes VAT at 20% which is reclaimable if you're a VAT registered business user. £750 is $1160, but UK/US proce comparisons are tricky). What's wrong with, for example (at £596): http://m.dabs.com/products/toshiba-satellite-pro-c70-b-10e-intel-core-i5-4200u-6gb-500gb-17-3--windows-8-1-64-bit-9LZ9.html?refs=22&src=3#specifications http://m.dabs.com/products/toshiba-satellite-pro-c70-b-10e-i... I can see some sub-optimallity (max ram is "only" 16 GB) but I wouldn't describe it as a piece of junk. (I've never used on! Maybe it's a horrible machine) PS: you don't have any contact information in your profile but I am on the lookout for an old but mostly working cheap laptop. If you - or anyone else in the UK - has any suggestions they'd be gratefully recieved.
- sbuk 12y ago
  http://laptopsdirect.co.uk http://laptopsdirect.co.uk used to be good for refurbished laptops. The piece of junk comment was admittedly flippant, but I genuinely believe that value != cheap. I've had my share of laptops in the price range you mention; all have lasted approximately 2 years, give or take...

by sbuk 12y ago

abandonliberty 12y ago

As a veteran system builder, I was rather surprised when I looked into laptops recently to find macbooks very competitive. I dislike Apple as an organization due to their marketing practices, closed ecosystem, and apparent lack of respect for their customers demonstrated in their reaction to bend/antenna gate. Apple even works hard to hide what processors their systems are actually running! After much digging, though the hardware costs slightly more, MBPs come out far ahead as a package with OS X - a full featured OS with a healthy ecosystem and excellent battery life. I couldn't find a better option for my intended user.

zanny 12y ago

I keep seeing nice Chromebooks with IPS displays and usually unibody plastic build construction. Sub the plastic for aluminum and it shouldn't add more than $100 to the ticket price. Make the keyboard good for another $50. That is only like $500 now, so we want some actual storage in this device, so throw in a 512GB SSD and call it a day at $700 with a Haswell dual core.

sbuk 12y ago
>> Sub the plastic for aluminum and it shouldn't add more than $100 to the ticket price. You'll be surprised! I'd suggest closer to $200. >> Make the keyboard good for another $50 Agreed. >> ...throw in a 512GB SSD and call it a day at $700 with a Haswell dual core. Can't argue with the storage, but the CPU is still not an i5/7 and the graphics card isn't Intel Iris/nVidia class. Add those in and we're beginning to hit Macbook price territory. Throw in a decent trackpad and a hi-res screen, and were there. Actually, it'd give us one of these; https://play.google.com/store/devices/details?id=chromebook_pixel_wifi https://play.google.com/store/devices/details?id=chromebook_... which cost £200 more than a MacBook Air and £50 more than the base model MacBook Pro Retina. Alright, the Pixel has a better screen with touch, but the Air has better graphics and more storage and the Pro blows the both out of the water in performance terms, so on balance I'd argue that the MacBook Pro is better value than both the Air and the Pixel.
- pbz 12y ago
  $200 just for an aluminum case? The price of aluminum is under $1 per pound. Where do you get that amount?
  - sbuk 12y ago
    Raw Aluminium needs to be processed. Even as ingots, there is a considerable amount of manufacturing required to form and make it into a sturdy enough case. As illustrated by the pricer point of the Pixel, my guesstimate seems closer than the original $100 - if anything I'm also a bit too low...
    - pbz 12y ago
      $200 is ridiculously high, even $100 is too much. $200 is the estimated bill of materials for the entire iPhone6 (which uses aluminum). I wasn't able to find an estimate for the MBP case, but Ford's cost of changing F-150 to aluminum (for an entire truck!!) is $500: http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2014/11/fords-switch-to-aluminum-f-150-increases-costs-500-a-truck.html http://news.pickuptrucks.com/2014/11/fords-switch-to-aluminu...

DanBC 12y ago

I go to a consumer website. I select laptops priced between £500 and £750 (this includes VAT at 20% which is reclaimable if you're a VAT registered business user. £750 is $1160, but UK/US proce comparisons are tricky). What's wrong with, for example (at £596): http://m.dabs.com/products/toshiba-satellite-pro-c70-b-10e-intel-core-i5-4200u-6gb-500gb-17-3--windows-8-1-64-bit-9LZ9.html?refs=22&src=3#specifications http://m.dabs.com/products/toshiba-satellite-pro-c70-b-10e-i... I can see some sub-optimallity (max ram is "only" 16 GB) but I wouldn't describe it as a piece of junk. (I've never used on! Maybe it's a horrible machine) PS: you don't have any contact information in your profile but I am on the lookout for an old but mostly working cheap laptop. If you - or anyone else in the UK - has any suggestions they'd be gratefully recieved.

sbuk 12y ago
http://laptopsdirect.co.uk http://laptopsdirect.co.uk used to be good for refurbished laptops. The piece of junk comment was admittedly flippant, but I genuinely believe that value != cheap. I've had my share of laptops in the price range you mention; all have lasted approximately 2 years, give or take...