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There were some pretty good multi-user flash games around 1999/2000, when things were just getting going. I can't remember the names though at the moment. It's

There were some pretty good multi-user flash games around 1999/2000, when things were just getting going. I can't remember the names though at the moment. It's only recently that graphics / audio / video / networking in javascript is almost as good as flash/java was 15 years ago! Sometimes it's easy to think we're on the cutting edge. But we're really not.

dasil003 12y ago
I'm sorry but the UX on Flash and Java plugin-based apps was horseshit. They were sluggish and encapsulated clumsily within the plugin sandbox so the integration to the browser was terrible. Yeah people did some amazing work on those proprietary platform when they were the only game in town, but it really doesn't hold a candle to what we have today in terms of a fully open and native web tech stack. If you want to be reductionist why not just say we haven't been on the bleeding edge since Lisp was invented and declare everything else derivative tripe.
- mike_hearn 12y ago
  They were faster than browsers were at the time, that's for sure. Especially Flash. At one point no serious design-focussed website worth its salt bothered with HTML because Flash was so much better and easier to author. Heck it's probably still easier to author. The "open and native web tech stack" is something that evolved messily over a long period of time in a piecemeal fashion with little overall design vision. It's hardly something to be proud of.
  - dasil003 12y ago
    There has never been a cross-platform, cross-media, accessible platform like the web in the history of computing or humanity for that matter. It is very much indeed something to be proud of.
  - Turing_Machine 12y ago
    And yet the sites that succeeded long-term (Google, Amazon, etc.) didn't use it, while all the sites that consisted of a zillion MB of Flash and Java all went by the wayside. Maybe design snobbery isn't as important as designers think it is. And yes, the web is definitely something to be proud of.

dasil003 12y ago

I'm sorry but the UX on Flash and Java plugin-based apps was horseshit. They were sluggish and encapsulated clumsily within the plugin sandbox so the integration to the browser was terrible. Yeah people did some amazing work on those proprietary platform when they were the only game in town, but it really doesn't hold a candle to what we have today in terms of a fully open and native web tech stack. If you want to be reductionist why not just say we haven't been on the bleeding edge since Lisp was invented and declare everything else derivative tripe.

mike_hearn 12y ago
They were faster than browsers were at the time, that's for sure. Especially Flash. At one point no serious design-focussed website worth its salt bothered with HTML because Flash was so much better and easier to author. Heck it's probably still easier to author. The "open and native web tech stack" is something that evolved messily over a long period of time in a piecemeal fashion with little overall design vision. It's hardly something to be proud of.
- dasil003 12y ago
  There has never been a cross-platform, cross-media, accessible platform like the web in the history of computing or humanity for that matter. It is very much indeed something to be proud of.
- Turing_Machine 12y ago
  And yet the sites that succeeded long-term (Google, Amazon, etc.) didn't use it, while all the sites that consisted of a zillion MB of Flash and Java all went by the wayside. Maybe design snobbery isn't as important as designers think it is. And yes, the web is definitely something to be proud of.