7 ms·

Bitcoin guide

127 points by pablo-massa 12y ago

undefined0 12y ago
"your customer pays in bitcoin and you receive dollars in your bank account", will Stripe allow us to receive in bitcoins too? I personally would love to use that option. BitPagos does that already but their service is currently limited to Argentinian Hotels. Payza allows it as well, but Payza requires users to create an account and go through a painful process.
- StavrosK 12y ago
  I would also like that. Right now it's too transparent, I always get USD and have no idea whether someone paid with Bitcoin. I'd like to just keep the Bitcoin.
  - cca 12y ago
    (Christian from Stripe here.) Our users tend to want unified behavior across payments of all different types. Of course, it's possible to filter by payment type in the API, dashboard, and data exports. To the original question: drop us a line at bitcoin@stripe.com if you want to talk more about not converting the payments. It's definitely something we'll support if there's user interest, but it's not something we do today.
    - RedSocks112 12y ago
      That would be handy as it seems like it would get around some of the pretty big list of businesses stripe can't get involved in due to restrictions from their banking partners.
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- Andrew_Quentin 12y ago
  BitPay allows it as does Coinbase
  - sserrano44 12y ago
    No, they don't. What undefined0 wants is bitcoins for all the payments he gets including credit cards.
alinenache 12y ago
http://waltherpragerandphilosophy1.blogspot.com/2014/12/buyers-in-perfect-world.html http://waltherpragerandphilosophy1.blogspot.com/2014/12/buye...
Everhusk 12y ago
Does anyone know if the 2.9% + 30c stripe fees still apply for bitcoin payments?
- hayksaakian 12y ago
  The pricing for bitcoin payments is simple: free during the beta and 0.50 percent per payment when the API is out of beta in January 2015.
  - sagivo 12y ago
    this is very heigh fee. the whole purpose of bitcoin is to get rid of the middle-man who try to take a cut out of simple transaction. i see the added value of easy-api but the fee is way too much for a free alternative. and yes, i know that bitpay and others take 1% but i'm sure they will adapt once cheaper alternatives will be available. as for me - i develop my own free solution.
    - Pyxl101 12y ago
      Is it really a high fee? Bitcoin cuts out the middleman if you're willing to keep the bitcoin, sure. For the users elsewhere in the thread who were asking if they could just keep the bitcoin, perhaps the price should be negligible. However, if what you want is fiat currency, like the US dollar, then a middleman needs to sell the bitcoin for currency and give you the currency. The middleman has a risky and complicated job, which I assume includes holding enough currency in reserve so as not to delay transactions; and they probably need to decouple the currency transfers from the bitcoin sales, which means they take on some risk from fluctuations in price in the bitcoin market. The market on which the middleman sells bitcoins might also take a cut. The middleman is taking on responsibilities and risk, and needs to be compensated for it. I don't work in payments, so the above is my own layman's understanding. How will you exchange bitcoin for dollars in a way that's free, and doesn't incur a transaction %?
      - tomschlick 12y ago
        This. Stripe is a business. They need to make money to stay alive. 0.5% is a whole lot better than 2.9% + $0.30. They are providing all of the infrastructure, auto conversion, and risk mitigation so it's not that high of a price.
tomschlick 12y ago
I'm glad to see them rolling out alternative payment options! Hopefully there will be an ACH beta soon!
- lachyg 12y ago
  We do have ACH charges in beta! Email me: lachy@stripe.com and I can get you on board.
devinmontgomery 12y ago
It seems like refunds would be hackable. If they're made in bitcoin, I could get back more than I paid if bitcoin value goes up. If they're made in dollars, I could get back more than I paid if it goes down.
- akhatri_aus 12y ago
  If you look at credit cards and foreign currency is that not something 'hackable' too? If say the Ruble appreciated and then depreciated wildly you could get a refund and redo the payment if it was against you.
  - jarek 12y ago
    In practice the refund will just post for whatever converted value you've paid in the first place and processors will take the difference in either direction
    - akhatri_aus 12y ago
      Yes I believe this is so. What I understood is as a 'hack' is the system could be taken advantage of (by doing the transaction in BTC) (for your own Stripe account by your own BTC wallet) and refund it if the price moves against you or allow it to convert (BTC->USD) if the price has moved in your favour. Since you get the USD from BTC yourself you have a sort of 'hedge'/call option to reverse it (premium being the initial conversion fees). If the volatility is such that its more than the fees (in this case BTC is 'free' during the Beta) it can be taken advantage of - The refund & near zero fees being a mechanism of a one way bet. I suppose this can be done already with credit cards and foreign currency purchases (if you have your own stripe account). Though the fees of 2.9%+ are significantly more than the volatility involved.
      - cca 12y ago
        (Christian from Stripe here.) Thanks for the clear description. In Stripe's case, this arbitrage won't work. When we refund a bitcoin payment, we refund the USD value of the payment (converted to bitcoin at the time of the refund). The customer does not necessarily receive the same bitcoin amount that they sent. For example: (1) At the initial time, each bitcoin is worth 100 USD. A Stripe user accepts a 10 USD payment (0.1 bitcoin). (2) Bitcoin then increase in value to 1,000 USD each. The Stripe user fully refunds the payment. Their customer receives 0.01 bitcoin (10 USD). The Stripe user and their customer both have a net of zero USD in this scenario. We could have implemented refunds in the opposite way: a net of zero BTC and non-zero USD. However, that would have introduced the issue that you describe.
bdcravens 12y ago
Was a fast setup; already in place. I'm seeing live mode transactions with a "Test" banner in upper right corner, but some tests with an online hosted wallet show these transactions to be real and live, not test-mode. Is this a bug in the Stripe console?
- lachyg 12y ago
  The 'test' banner is indicative of which Stripe publishable keys you're using—test mode keys will result in the 'test' banner you see.
  - bdcravens 12y ago
    This was using my live mode keys. I was able to perform transactions in and then refund, using my Circle account, so they're live transactions. Those transactions are showing up in my live mode in the console, next to live CC transactions, which of course don't have the "test" banner.
    - cca 12y ago
      If you were using your testmode keys, then we would not generate a valid bitcoin address (to avoid all kinds of confusion). It must be the case that these were your livemode keys. If you're able to reproduce an inaccurate "test mode" banner, can you send a bug report to bitcoin@stripe.com? You can cc me, christian@stripe.com. I'm happy to take a look, but I haven't been able to reproduce on my side.
borski 12y ago
I'm assuming this doesn't work for recurring payments?
- sintaxi 12y ago
  I tend to think that would be the case. Would be nice to get official word on that.
clooney 12y ago
I suggest Stripe change the title. It's actually not a Bitcoin guide, and anyone looking to learn more about Bitcoin or for a definitive guide would be disappointed.
romaster 12y ago
When will this statement "your customer pays in bitcoin and you will receive dollars in your bank account" become "you the customer pay in bitcoin and you will accept a charge in dollars through your bank account" Eta innovation on the consumer side?
gdh73 12y ago
Will application_fee and Stripe Connect be supported?
saiko-chriskun 12y ago
Kind of confused as to what exactly happens and how to deal with a user sending bitcon to an expired receiver. All the docs seem to say is "we will do our best to convert them to the requested amount of USD, but the effects are not predictable." Obviously the amount of USD converted won't be predictable, but it's a situation that needs to be handled.

127 points by pablo-massa 12y ago

"your customer pays in bitcoin and you receive dollars in your bank account", will Stripe allow us to receive in bitcoins too? I personally would love to use that option. BitPagos does that already but their service is currently limited to Argentinian Hotels. Payza allows it as well, but Payza requires users to create an account and go through a painful process.

StavrosK 12y ago
I would also like that. Right now it's too transparent, I always get USD and have no idea whether someone paid with Bitcoin. I'd like to just keep the Bitcoin.
- cca 12y ago
  (Christian from Stripe here.) Our users tend to want unified behavior across payments of all different types. Of course, it's possible to filter by payment type in the API, dashboard, and data exports. To the original question: drop us a line at bitcoin@stripe.com if you want to talk more about not converting the payments. It's definitely something we'll support if there's user interest, but it's not something we do today.
  - RedSocks112 12y ago
    That would be handy as it seems like it would get around some of the pretty big list of businesses stripe can't get involved in due to restrictions from their banking partners.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
Andrew_Quentin 12y ago
BitPay allows it as does Coinbase
- sserrano44 12y ago
  No, they don't. What undefined0 wants is bitcoins for all the payments he gets including credit cards.

alinenache 12y ago

http://waltherpragerandphilosophy1.blogspot.com/2014/12/buyers-in-perfect-world.html http://waltherpragerandphilosophy1.blogspot.com/2014/12/buye...

Everhusk 12y ago

Does anyone know if the 2.9% + 30c stripe fees still apply for bitcoin payments?

hayksaakian 12y ago
The pricing for bitcoin payments is simple: free during the beta and 0.50 percent per payment when the API is out of beta in January 2015.
- sagivo 12y ago
  this is very heigh fee. the whole purpose of bitcoin is to get rid of the middle-man who try to take a cut out of simple transaction. i see the added value of easy-api but the fee is way too much for a free alternative. and yes, i know that bitpay and others take 1% but i'm sure they will adapt once cheaper alternatives will be available. as for me - i develop my own free solution.
  - Pyxl101 12y ago
    Is it really a high fee? Bitcoin cuts out the middleman if you're willing to keep the bitcoin, sure. For the users elsewhere in the thread who were asking if they could just keep the bitcoin, perhaps the price should be negligible. However, if what you want is fiat currency, like the US dollar, then a middleman needs to sell the bitcoin for currency and give you the currency. The middleman has a risky and complicated job, which I assume includes holding enough currency in reserve so as not to delay transactions; and they probably need to decouple the currency transfers from the bitcoin sales, which means they take on some risk from fluctuations in price in the bitcoin market. The market on which the middleman sells bitcoins might also take a cut. The middleman is taking on responsibilities and risk, and needs to be compensated for it. I don't work in payments, so the above is my own layman's understanding. How will you exchange bitcoin for dollars in a way that's free, and doesn't incur a transaction %?
    - tomschlick 12y ago
      This. Stripe is a business. They need to make money to stay alive. 0.5% is a whole lot better than 2.9% + $0.30. They are providing all of the infrastructure, auto conversion, and risk mitigation so it's not that high of a price.

tomschlick 12y ago

I'm glad to see them rolling out alternative payment options! Hopefully there will be an ACH beta soon!

lachyg 12y ago
We do have ACH charges in beta! Email me: lachy@stripe.com and I can get you on board.

devinmontgomery 12y ago

It seems like refunds would be hackable. If they're made in bitcoin, I could get back more than I paid if bitcoin value goes up. If they're made in dollars, I could get back more than I paid if it goes down.

akhatri_aus 12y ago
If you look at credit cards and foreign currency is that not something 'hackable' too? If say the Ruble appreciated and then depreciated wildly you could get a refund and redo the payment if it was against you.
- jarek 12y ago
  In practice the refund will just post for whatever converted value you've paid in the first place and processors will take the difference in either direction
  - akhatri_aus 12y ago
    Yes I believe this is so. What I understood is as a 'hack' is the system could be taken advantage of (by doing the transaction in BTC) (for your own Stripe account by your own BTC wallet) and refund it if the price moves against you or allow it to convert (BTC->USD) if the price has moved in your favour. Since you get the USD from BTC yourself you have a sort of 'hedge'/call option to reverse it (premium being the initial conversion fees). If the volatility is such that its more than the fees (in this case BTC is 'free' during the Beta) it can be taken advantage of - The refund & near zero fees being a mechanism of a one way bet. I suppose this can be done already with credit cards and foreign currency purchases (if you have your own stripe account). Though the fees of 2.9%+ are significantly more than the volatility involved.
    - cca 12y ago
      (Christian from Stripe here.) Thanks for the clear description. In Stripe's case, this arbitrage won't work. When we refund a bitcoin payment, we refund the USD value of the payment (converted to bitcoin at the time of the refund). The customer does not necessarily receive the same bitcoin amount that they sent. For example: (1) At the initial time, each bitcoin is worth 100 USD. A Stripe user accepts a 10 USD payment (0.1 bitcoin). (2) Bitcoin then increase in value to 1,000 USD each. The Stripe user fully refunds the payment. Their customer receives 0.01 bitcoin (10 USD). The Stripe user and their customer both have a net of zero USD in this scenario. We could have implemented refunds in the opposite way: a net of zero BTC and non-zero USD. However, that would have introduced the issue that you describe.

bdcravens 12y ago

Was a fast setup; already in place. I'm seeing live mode transactions with a "Test" banner in upper right corner, but some tests with an online hosted wallet show these transactions to be real and live, not test-mode. Is this a bug in the Stripe console?

lachyg 12y ago
The 'test' banner is indicative of which Stripe publishable keys you're using—test mode keys will result in the 'test' banner you see.
- bdcravens 12y ago
  This was using my live mode keys. I was able to perform transactions in and then refund, using my Circle account, so they're live transactions. Those transactions are showing up in my live mode in the console, next to live CC transactions, which of course don't have the "test" banner.
  - cca 12y ago
    If you were using your testmode keys, then we would not generate a valid bitcoin address (to avoid all kinds of confusion). It must be the case that these were your livemode keys. If you're able to reproduce an inaccurate "test mode" banner, can you send a bug report to bitcoin@stripe.com? You can cc me, christian@stripe.com. I'm happy to take a look, but I haven't been able to reproduce on my side.

borski 12y ago

I'm assuming this doesn't work for recurring payments?

sintaxi 12y ago
I tend to think that would be the case. Would be nice to get official word on that.

clooney 12y ago

I suggest Stripe change the title. It's actually not a Bitcoin guide, and anyone looking to learn more about Bitcoin or for a definitive guide would be disappointed.

romaster 12y ago

When will this statement "your customer pays in bitcoin and you will receive dollars in your bank account" become "you the customer pay in bitcoin and you will accept a charge in dollars through your bank account" Eta innovation on the consumer side?

gdh73 12y ago

Will application_fee and Stripe Connect be supported?

saiko-chriskun 12y ago

Kind of confused as to what exactly happens and how to deal with a user sending bitcon to an expired receiver. All the docs seem to say is "we will do our best to convert them to the requested amount of USD, but the effects are not predictable." Obviously the amount of USD converted won't be predictable, but it's a situation that needs to be handled.