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This science and title is misleading. Placebo and nocebo are terms for both sides of one effect: suggestibility. If told they were testing a drug, warned of it

by trebor 17y ago

This science and title is misleading. Placebo and nocebo are terms for both sides of one effect: suggestibility. If told they were testing a drug, warned of its side effects, and then given a sugar pill, then of course the mind (which was tricked into thinking it got medicine) would give both the healing boost and the side effects. Pretend that it had none, and the patient probably wouldn't feel any. This is a single unified thing, not two different effects.

trapper 17y ago
"If told they were testing a drug, warned of its side effects, and then given a sugar pill, then of course the mind (which was tricked into thinking it got medicine) would give both the healing boost and the side effects. Pretend that it had none, and the patient probably wouldn't feel any." Have there been any studies investigating your claim that you know of?
- trebor 17y ago
  I wish I knew of such a study. I haven't had any time to dig with lately, or I would cite it fondly. (I enjoy postulating things and then later reading a confirming study.)
NathanKP 17y ago
Obviously it is a single unified effect, however it is still very interesting that placebos would cause negative side effects through suggestibility. I personally had always thought of the placebo effect as being a positive thing, but as it turns out it can work just as easily to cause negative side effects as positive side effects.
scott_s 17y ago
It's the same effect, but it's useful to distinguish between the good effects of expectations, and the bad effects of expectations. Your complaint is not one of science, but of semantics.
- trebor 17y ago
  Semantics, yes, but also science. It comes from the same cause, the human mind, and is therefore the very same effect. If both positive and negative expectations affect us in such strong manners, why shouldn't we be honest in our semantics? An identical study was listed here recently, one about how people who thought themselves (un)lucky would (subconsciously) behave themselves in ways to fulfill their mindset. Is that placebo or nocebo? In my judgement, it is best to call a spade a spade: placebos, nocebos, suggestibility, hypochondria, and expectations are one in the same thing with very potent effects.
  - scott_s 17y ago
    It's the same reason we have the word deceleration despite the fact that acceleration is technically just a change in speed over time, not just an increase. It's useful to use one word to distinguish direction.
ars 17y ago
This was not reported very well. It does sound like suggestibility (they told them what to except, and that's what happened). Except that other studies have shown that both the healing, and the side effects of placebos are real - patients in double blind studies had side, and positive effects, without being told what to expect. We had a long conversation about it here: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=783912 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=783912
- trebor 17y ago
  I accept the realities of placebos and nocebos. I dispute the manner and clarity in which it was described and communicated in, however. I postulate that the recent article on luckiness is the same factor: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=878039 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=878039

by trebor 17y ago

trapper 17y ago

"If told they were testing a drug, warned of its side effects, and then given a sugar pill, then of course the mind (which was tricked into thinking it got medicine) would give both the healing boost and the side effects. Pretend that it had none, and the patient probably wouldn't feel any." Have there been any studies investigating your claim that you know of?

trebor 17y ago
I wish I knew of such a study. I haven't had any time to dig with lately, or I would cite it fondly. (I enjoy postulating things and then later reading a confirming study.)

NathanKP 17y ago

Obviously it is a single unified effect, however it is still very interesting that placebos would cause negative side effects through suggestibility. I personally had always thought of the placebo effect as being a positive thing, but as it turns out it can work just as easily to cause negative side effects as positive side effects.

scott_s 17y ago

It's the same effect, but it's useful to distinguish between the good effects of expectations, and the bad effects of expectations. Your complaint is not one of science, but of semantics.

trebor 17y ago
Semantics, yes, but also science. It comes from the same cause, the human mind, and is therefore the very same effect. If both positive and negative expectations affect us in such strong manners, why shouldn't we be honest in our semantics? An identical study was listed here recently, one about how people who thought themselves (un)lucky would (subconsciously) behave themselves in ways to fulfill their mindset. Is that placebo or nocebo? In my judgement, it is best to call a spade a spade: placebos, nocebos, suggestibility, hypochondria, and expectations are one in the same thing with very potent effects.
- scott_s 17y ago
  It's the same reason we have the word deceleration despite the fact that acceleration is technically just a change in speed over time, not just an increase. It's useful to use one word to distinguish direction.

ars 17y ago

This was not reported very well. It does sound like suggestibility (they told them what to except, and that's what happened). Except that other studies have shown that both the healing, and the side effects of placebos are real - patients in double blind studies had side, and positive effects, without being told what to expect. We had a long conversation about it here: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=783912 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=783912

trebor 17y ago
I accept the realities of placebos and nocebos. I dispute the manner and clarity in which it was described and communicated in, however. I postulate that the recent article on luckiness is the same factor: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=878039 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=878039