4 ms·

"They usually live in aviaries: massive industrial barns" Oooh, industrial barns... "And often, Kastel says, industrial fans that suck..." Oooh, industrial f

by gd1 12y ago

"They usually live in aviaries: massive industrial barns" Oooh, industrial barns... "And often, Kastel says, industrial fans that suck..." Oooh, industrial fans. As opposed to the ones that grow on trees. "One of the most common causes of death was pecking by other chickens." You mean we give them more freedom, and they kill each other? I thought 'natural' was meant to mean all rainbows and happiness and shit.

pyre 12y ago
> You mean we give them more freedom, and they kill each other? They are in crowded conditions. Humans do the same things will kept locked up in crowded conditions. What are you arguing is akin to saying that humans need to be locked up in solitary confinement because if you keep them "free" in close quarters they will start committing acts of violence against each other. You would have a hard time arguing that the Japanese in US/Canadian "relocation centres" should have been kept in solitary confinement because there were instances of "inmate-on-inmate" violence/rape.
- fizgig 12y ago
  > They are in crowded conditions. Humans do the same things will kept locked up in crowded conditions. Many animals do. Goats are downright nasty little shits with each-other, if they have horns (even w/o) Hens very much have a "pecking order", and can be pretty brutal to one another even with ample space to roam and feed. Don't get me started on most roosters, though we did raise some that were downright gentlemanly to their ladies. Quail in crowded conditions (we raised Coturnix) can damned near skin each-other alive if a sufficiently picked-on bird gets too damaged. Either bird will pick at open wounds on others. Not certain what that behavior was about, but is ain't good for the birds in either case.
- gd1 12y ago
  Don't think I was 'arguing' anything really. Just commenting on the irony. Nature tends to be brutish and nasty, quite the opposite to the picture that your typical urban-living organic food enthusiast has.
  - pyre 12y ago
    > your typical urban-living organic food enthusiast has. I somehow doubt that you've actually talked to many vs. just holding some gross generalization of an idea about what "those people" think.
    - gd1 12y ago
      My wife is one, so I somehow doubt you have a clue.
      - pyre 12y ago
        I said "many" vs. "any" for a reason. Some people form judgemental ideas of an entire group/class of people based on limited experience with them. Limited may just mean "caricatures" of said group in popular media, or may mean "I know this person and his/her friends (i.e. small number of people) that think a certain way." That said, I don't think continuing this thread further provides any value, and has the potential to just devolve into a flame war for various reasons.
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
ceejayoz 12y ago
> Oooh, industrial barns... Yes, as in "not the red family farm barn they have on the packaging". > You mean we give them more freedom, and they kill each other? I thought 'natural' was meant to mean all rainbows and happiness and shit. Imagine a prison where you've replaced all the individual cells with one big cramped holding cell. Violence will break out.
- gd1 12y ago
  Do you think the chickens give a shit what colour the barn is?
  - ceejayoz 12y ago
    No, but if you do a GIS for "barn" you'll find virtually every top result to be a red barn. Here's a screen shot: http://cl.ly/image/3G2w3N2a3d1e/Screen%20Shot%202014-12-23%20at%204.56.18%20PM.jpg http://cl.ly/image/3G2w3N2a3d1e/Screen%20Shot%202014-12-23%2... I'm saying chicken/dairy/etc. producers will happily use this stereotypical image in their marketing, but the reality of how they're raising the animals is very different.
    - gd1 12y ago
      True enough, but the positive response you feel to a red barn is just as illogical as the negative response you feel towards the word 'industrial' as applied to barns or fans. Do you see the irony in an article debunking these feel good labels applied to the eggs, by applying negative labels instead to evoke pictures of industrial factories, etc.? Do you really think the chickens are bothered by the colour and style of their barns?
      - saeguaiga 12y ago
        Yes, from the sunrise/set lighting US reforms of '84 and subsequent Seasonal Affective Disorder DSM entry, and the vaccine production compliance closure, research on how to keep and lose domesticated raptor blends is deathless; and reflected in barn weather coating choices. Choices foiled by inconsistent use of supply dunnage as decor savings. Though yes, once the chickens are into their perceptual program and farm tasks (because categories,) the IR head tracking and task stack do not continue to produce gains in individuals or art. Heads up for garden-servicing, heliostat-cleaning exhibition breeds' completely automated union brawls with the LiPo competition, though.

by gd1 12y ago

pyre 12y ago

> You mean we give them more freedom, and they kill each other? They are in crowded conditions. Humans do the same things will kept locked up in crowded conditions. What are you arguing is akin to saying that humans need to be locked up in solitary confinement because if you keep them "free" in close quarters they will start committing acts of violence against each other. You would have a hard time arguing that the Japanese in US/Canadian "relocation centres" should have been kept in solitary confinement because there were instances of "inmate-on-inmate" violence/rape.

fizgig 12y ago
> They are in crowded conditions. Humans do the same things will kept locked up in crowded conditions. Many animals do. Goats are downright nasty little shits with each-other, if they have horns (even w/o) Hens very much have a "pecking order", and can be pretty brutal to one another even with ample space to roam and feed. Don't get me started on most roosters, though we did raise some that were downright gentlemanly to their ladies. Quail in crowded conditions (we raised Coturnix) can damned near skin each-other alive if a sufficiently picked-on bird gets too damaged. Either bird will pick at open wounds on others. Not certain what that behavior was about, but is ain't good for the birds in either case.
gd1 12y ago
Don't think I was 'arguing' anything really. Just commenting on the irony. Nature tends to be brutish and nasty, quite the opposite to the picture that your typical urban-living organic food enthusiast has.
- pyre 12y ago
  > your typical urban-living organic food enthusiast has. I somehow doubt that you've actually talked to many vs. just holding some gross generalization of an idea about what "those people" think.
  - gd1 12y ago
    My wife is one, so I somehow doubt you have a clue.
    - pyre 12y ago
      I said "many" vs. "any" for a reason. Some people form judgemental ideas of an entire group/class of people based on limited experience with them. Limited may just mean "caricatures" of said group in popular media, or may mean "I know this person and his/her friends (i.e. small number of people) that think a certain way." That said, I don't think continuing this thread further provides any value, and has the potential to just devolve into a flame war for various reasons.

deleted 12y ago

[deleted]

ceejayoz 12y ago

> Oooh, industrial barns... Yes, as in "not the red family farm barn they have on the packaging". > You mean we give them more freedom, and they kill each other? I thought 'natural' was meant to mean all rainbows and happiness and shit. Imagine a prison where you've replaced all the individual cells with one big cramped holding cell. Violence will break out.

gd1 12y ago
Do you think the chickens give a shit what colour the barn is?
- ceejayoz 12y ago
  No, but if you do a GIS for "barn" you'll find virtually every top result to be a red barn. Here's a screen shot: http://cl.ly/image/3G2w3N2a3d1e/Screen%20Shot%202014-12-23%20at%204.56.18%20PM.jpg http://cl.ly/image/3G2w3N2a3d1e/Screen%20Shot%202014-12-23%2... I'm saying chicken/dairy/etc. producers will happily use this stereotypical image in their marketing, but the reality of how they're raising the animals is very different.
  - gd1 12y ago
    True enough, but the positive response you feel to a red barn is just as illogical as the negative response you feel towards the word 'industrial' as applied to barns or fans. Do you see the irony in an article debunking these feel good labels applied to the eggs, by applying negative labels instead to evoke pictures of industrial factories, etc.? Do you really think the chickens are bothered by the colour and style of their barns?
    - saeguaiga 12y ago
      Yes, from the sunrise/set lighting US reforms of '84 and subsequent Seasonal Affective Disorder DSM entry, and the vaccine production compliance closure, research on how to keep and lose domesticated raptor blends is deathless; and reflected in barn weather coating choices. Choices foiled by inconsistent use of supply dunnage as decor savings. Though yes, once the chickens are into their perceptual program and farm tasks (because categories,) the IR head tracking and task stack do not continue to produce gains in individuals or art. Heads up for garden-servicing, heliostat-cleaning exhibition breeds' completely automated union brawls with the LiPo competition, though.