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The airline industry is essentially beholden to the price of fuel, right? If an airline figures out how to not need so much fuel, they could undercut and make a

The airline industry is essentially beholden to the price of fuel, right? If an airline figures out how to not need so much fuel, they could undercut and make a larger profit than everyone else. Is there work on hybrid or electric passenger flight? Will there be?

_delirium 12y ago
Fuel cost does have a huge impact, but up-front capital costs and maintenance costs are also a big part of the picture. Which is why there are still a lot of planes in major airlines' fleets that are not as fuel-efficient as the latest models. Airlines are slowly turning them over, but the capital costs for a new plane are very high [1], and they also have to fit any new models into their maintenance plans. [1] Around $200-400m ea for a modern wide-body, according to Boeing's pricing page: http://www.boeing.com/boeing/commercial/prices/ http://www.boeing.com/boeing/commercial/prices/
- notahacker 12y ago
  Aircraft finance is readily available though, and at current prices airlines' annual capital cost per aircraft (amortised over a 20 year lifespan, and often on a lease for 5 years or less) is about half the annual fuel bill if that aircraft is in regular operation. Whilst there are certainly savings to be had from sharing existing spares pools and pilot and engineering type-ratings across a large fleet[1] which make some optimisations unprofitable, a drastic improvement in fuel economy would see Western fleets improved as fast as the new aircraft could be delivered in an era where 1% per annum is the improvement rate the engine OEMs strive for. The real obstacle would be actually delivering workable technology and getting it through the certification process. By which time we might all be flying delta-winged contraptions with open rotors. Or more likely, similarly-shaped aluminium tubes with turbofan engines that have improved an awful lot over several decades. [1]which is why Northwest/Delta were able to get away with running thirsty but long paid-for DC-9s that had been obsolete for nearly a couple of decades until recently.
grinich 12y ago
Fuel, logistics, taxes, maintenance, unions, global economy, shipping/receiving, etc. These days most airlines just break even on ticket sales, but make profits on credit card deals.
lutorm 12y ago
I suspect there is not much to be gained for transport aircraft, because they cruise at high power settings (people want to get there, and turbine engines are really inefficient at low power settings).

_delirium 12y ago

Fuel cost does have a huge impact, but up-front capital costs and maintenance costs are also a big part of the picture. Which is why there are still a lot of planes in major airlines' fleets that are not as fuel-efficient as the latest models. Airlines are slowly turning them over, but the capital costs for a new plane are very high [1], and they also have to fit any new models into their maintenance plans. [1] Around $200-400m ea for a modern wide-body, according to Boeing's pricing page: http://www.boeing.com/boeing/commercial/prices/ http://www.boeing.com/boeing/commercial/prices/

notahacker 12y ago
Aircraft finance is readily available though, and at current prices airlines' annual capital cost per aircraft (amortised over a 20 year lifespan, and often on a lease for 5 years or less) is about half the annual fuel bill if that aircraft is in regular operation. Whilst there are certainly savings to be had from sharing existing spares pools and pilot and engineering type-ratings across a large fleet[1] which make some optimisations unprofitable, a drastic improvement in fuel economy would see Western fleets improved as fast as the new aircraft could be delivered in an era where 1% per annum is the improvement rate the engine OEMs strive for. The real obstacle would be actually delivering workable technology and getting it through the certification process. By which time we might all be flying delta-winged contraptions with open rotors. Or more likely, similarly-shaped aluminium tubes with turbofan engines that have improved an awful lot over several decades. [1]which is why Northwest/Delta were able to get away with running thirsty but long paid-for DC-9s that had been obsolete for nearly a couple of decades until recently.

grinich 12y ago

Fuel, logistics, taxes, maintenance, unions, global economy, shipping/receiving, etc. These days most airlines just break even on ticket sales, but make profits on credit card deals.

lutorm 12y ago

I suspect there is not much to be gained for transport aircraft, because they cruise at high power settings (people want to get there, and turbine engines are really inefficient at low power settings).