4 ms·

False dichotomy. Plenty of people who "build really cool things with it" also bash C++, and rightfully so.

cageface 12y ago
Nobody I know. People I know that use C++ every day will admit it has issues but are also realistic enough to understand that any language with the same design constraints and long history as C++ will be complex. It's the catbirds in the gallery that don't actually have to write the kind of apps that require a language like C++ that "bash" it.
- jevgeni 12y ago
  Catbirds like Linus Torvalds, for example?
  - rgbrenner 12y ago
    Does Torvalds write anything in C++? The kernel and git are in C
    - jevgeni 12y ago
      This is my point exactly. I'd consider both git and the Linux kernel tough projects, so the choice of the programming language is interesting. More so, given his stance on C++.
      - inDigiNeous 12y ago
        How come it's interesting ? Linus has always been a C -programmer, and kernel space is something where you want to keep things simple and access tha raw bits of things, so C is a natural choice. And if you've been programming C for 20 years or more, writing git with C feels like a natural solution. It's not always about writing stuff with the most high definition solution, it's more about expressing ideas with the tools you know also.
        jevgeni 12y ago
        In the case of git, C++ was actually evaluated (in a manner very natural to Linus) and not discarded due to some habit: http://harmful.cat-v.org/software/c++/linus http://harmful.cat-v.org/software/c++/linus
        yongjik 12y ago
        > I've come to the conclusion that any programmer that would prefer the project to be in C++ over C is likely a programmer that I really would prefer to piss off, so that he doesn't come and screw up any project I'm involved with. Quintessential Linus, but I wouldn't call this an "evaluation"... :)
        jevgeni 12y ago
        Fair enough. As a side note: I think we as a community should promote the catchphrase "You've Been Torvalds'd".
- jbergens 12y ago
  But for projects that don't view those design constraints as very important and projects created when there were other languages that don't have the same history those compromises/explanations won't help. If/when there is a better language you don't have to suffer the history of C++ anymore, just use a newer language without the history. And if the constraints for example were to make it C compatible and very fast, for many projects those may not be of much importance anymore. Other language may be fast enough and easier to write in. I think it is probable that most of todays applications has lower speed requirements than C++ were aiming for. Those who needs speed can probably still use C.

Nobody I know. People I know that use C++ every day will admit it has issues but are also realistic enough to understand that any language with the same design constraints and long history as C++ will be complex. It's the catbirds in the gallery that don't actually have to write the kind of apps that require a language like C++ that "bash" it.

jevgeni 12y ago
Catbirds like Linus Torvalds, for example?
- rgbrenner 12y ago
  Does Torvalds write anything in C++? The kernel and git are in C
  - jevgeni 12y ago
    This is my point exactly. I'd consider both git and the Linux kernel tough projects, so the choice of the programming language is interesting. More so, given his stance on C++.
    - inDigiNeous 12y ago
      How come it's interesting ? Linus has always been a C -programmer, and kernel space is something where you want to keep things simple and access tha raw bits of things, so C is a natural choice. And if you've been programming C for 20 years or more, writing git with C feels like a natural solution. It's not always about writing stuff with the most high definition solution, it's more about expressing ideas with the tools you know also.
      - jevgeni 12y ago
        In the case of git, C++ was actually evaluated (in a manner very natural to Linus) and not discarded due to some habit: http://harmful.cat-v.org/software/c++/linus http://harmful.cat-v.org/software/c++/linus
        yongjik 12y ago
        > I've come to the conclusion that any programmer that would prefer the project to be in C++ over C is likely a programmer that I really would prefer to piss off, so that he doesn't come and screw up any project I'm involved with. Quintessential Linus, but I wouldn't call this an "evaluation"... :)
        jevgeni 12y ago
        Fair enough. As a side note: I think we as a community should promote the catchphrase "You've Been Torvalds'd".
jbergens 12y ago
But for projects that don't view those design constraints as very important and projects created when there were other languages that don't have the same history those compromises/explanations won't help. If/when there is a better language you don't have to suffer the history of C++ anymore, just use a newer language without the history. And if the constraints for example were to make it C compatible and very fast, for many projects those may not be of much importance anymore. Other language may be fast enough and easier to write in. I think it is probable that most of todays applications has lower speed requirements than C++ were aiming for. Those who needs speed can probably still use C.