7 ms·

>Is this PR, self-delusion intended to make the (powerful) speaker not feel bad, selective blindness or just mind-boggling ignorance? Maybe it is none of the a

>Is this PR, self-delusion intended to make the (powerful) speaker not feel bad, selective blindness or just mind-boggling ignorance? Maybe it is none of the above? The fact that you have such a deep ideological belief that you can't even acknowledge the possibility that there are other options says more about you than the statement you are quoting says about the person saying it.

pron 12y ago
The fact that large groups of people are grossly under-represented in SV categorically proves that it's not a meritocracy in the presumably positive sense that guy means it, and is very much a meritocracy in the true meaning of the word.
- douche 12y ago
  If those large groups don't, on aggregate, pursue the merits that the meritocracy selects for, then yeah, you're going to see them under-represented.
  - lotso 12y ago
    So only white males actively pursue wealth and power in the US tech scene?
    - douche 12y ago
      South and East Asian males seem to have done pretty well for themselves too.
      - pron 12y ago
        Oh, are you're also a subscriber to "Social Darwinist Weekly"?
- deleted 12y ago
  [deleted]
- imanaccount247 12y ago
  >The fact that large groups of people are grossly under-represented in SV categorically proves that it's not a meritocracy No it does not. I can only select from the candidates who apply. I am the only woman here. I do the hiring. I have had ZERO applications from women. How exactly do you want me to meet your woman quota?
  - pron 12y ago
    By helping to remove the societal pressures that create the situation that less women apply. Or do you believe -- like others here -- that we have sufficient evidence to satisfyingly prove that the reason there are far less women in SV startups is biological?
    - imanaccount247 12y ago
      >By helping to remove the societal pressures that create the situation that less women apply What pressure is that? How am I supposed to remove pressures that I can't see and whose existence is almost exclusively attested to by men who insist they know what my life is like better than I do?
      - pron 12y ago
        > What pressure is that? Here's a recent article about parents to a girl who try to fight all those pressures placed on her so that she's free to choose what she wants to do in life: http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/bitwise/2014/12/women_in_tech_and_the_sciences_how_to_make_sure_your_daughter_knows_she.html http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/bitwise/2014/12/wom... > How am I supposed to remove pressures that I can't see By their very definition, cultural pressures are invisible (because they're culturally ingrained) until we learn to see them. So, step one: learn to see those biases. > and whose existence is almost exclusively attested to by men That's just not true at all. Sexist biases have been conclusively, convincingly proven in too many studies to count, with effect sizes dwarfing most other medical and psychological research. > ... who insist they know what my life is like better than I do It's sad that you think so, because those proven, well established, well ingrained cultural biases already limit your choices (or place pressure on you) in a lot of ways. All we're trying to do is remove those pressures so you have more freedom; quite the opposite of anyone knowing better than you what your life is like. I don't need to know what your life is like if I see an obstacle in your way and remove it (and it is there even if you can't see it; we know it's there because of all those hundreds of helpful studies) so that you can do what was hard for women before... or choose not to.

pron 12y ago

The fact that large groups of people are grossly under-represented in SV categorically proves that it's not a meritocracy in the presumably positive sense that guy means it, and is very much a meritocracy in the true meaning of the word.

douche 12y ago
If those large groups don't, on aggregate, pursue the merits that the meritocracy selects for, then yeah, you're going to see them under-represented.
- lotso 12y ago
  So only white males actively pursue wealth and power in the US tech scene?
  - douche 12y ago
    South and East Asian males seem to have done pretty well for themselves too.
    - pron 12y ago
      Oh, are you're also a subscriber to "Social Darwinist Weekly"?
deleted 12y ago
[deleted]
imanaccount247 12y ago
>The fact that large groups of people are grossly under-represented in SV categorically proves that it's not a meritocracy No it does not. I can only select from the candidates who apply. I am the only woman here. I do the hiring. I have had ZERO applications from women. How exactly do you want me to meet your woman quota?
- pron 12y ago
  By helping to remove the societal pressures that create the situation that less women apply. Or do you believe -- like others here -- that we have sufficient evidence to satisfyingly prove that the reason there are far less women in SV startups is biological?
  - imanaccount247 12y ago
    >By helping to remove the societal pressures that create the situation that less women apply What pressure is that? How am I supposed to remove pressures that I can't see and whose existence is almost exclusively attested to by men who insist they know what my life is like better than I do?
    - pron 12y ago
      > What pressure is that? Here's a recent article about parents to a girl who try to fight all those pressures placed on her so that she's free to choose what she wants to do in life: http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/bitwise/2014/12/women_in_tech_and_the_sciences_how_to_make_sure_your_daughter_knows_she.html http://www.slate.com/articles/technology/bitwise/2014/12/wom... > How am I supposed to remove pressures that I can't see By their very definition, cultural pressures are invisible (because they're culturally ingrained) until we learn to see them. So, step one: learn to see those biases. > and whose existence is almost exclusively attested to by men That's just not true at all. Sexist biases have been conclusively, convincingly proven in too many studies to count, with effect sizes dwarfing most other medical and psychological research. > ... who insist they know what my life is like better than I do It's sad that you think so, because those proven, well established, well ingrained cultural biases already limit your choices (or place pressure on you) in a lot of ways. All we're trying to do is remove those pressures so you have more freedom; quite the opposite of anyone knowing better than you what your life is like. I don't need to know what your life is like if I see an obstacle in your way and remove it (and it is there even if you can't see it; we know it's there because of all those hundreds of helpful studies) so that you can do what was hard for women before... or choose not to.