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I would think a school wants more future billionaires and Nobel prize winners instead of cherry picking 10 whites 10 asians 10 hispanics 10 blacks majoring in A

by codexon 17y ago

I would think a school wants more future billionaires and Nobel prize winners instead of cherry picking 10 whites 10 asians 10 hispanics 10 blacks majoring in Art History and Divinity. This is certainly the image that Harvard et al. are cultivating.

amichail 17y ago
Perhaps diversity is part of the education.
- uuilly 17y ago
  Diversity in what? Color of skin? What about political or Religious beliefs? Those attributes are a lot more definitive than skin color.
- btilly 17y ago
  Absolutely. Elite schools are selling a product. And the product that Harvard, Yale, etc sell is the image that they create well-rounded future leaders who are going places. There is an easy way to see whether you're part of the target market the school is selling to. Just look at how much financial aid they are willing to give you. If they are willing to give you generous financial aid, then you're part of the product being sold, not the target market. According to Harvard's current financial aid packages, if your parents make under $60,000, you're part of the product. If they make up to $120,000, you get steep discounts. If you're honest, there is an even easier way to judge. When I was at Dartmouth College the figure I heard was that they got more in donations each year than tuition. If your family is able to make those donations, then you are really in their target market.
tsally 17y ago
By that logic every school should admit as many males as it can. Let's not even get into race, you're cutting out most women of any color. Turns out that making billions and winning the Nobel prize isn't what education is really about.
- codexon 17y ago
  You are looking at it the wrong way. There is a difference between simply selecting only white males and and simply selecting based on academic merit.
  - tsally 17y ago
    You are looking at it the wrong way. I'm only looking at it through the lens you presented, which was maximizing the number of billionaires and Nobel winners. If I'm looking at it wrong, it's your logic that is at fault. There is a difference between simply selecting only white males and and simply selecting based on academic merit. You need to reassess the idea that selecting the most academically talented students will result in the most successful graduating class.
    - codexon 17y ago
      It is only by your own racist assumption that white males are the best for that. Edit This comment was at +4, but people are now downvoting it for looking like a non sequitur because tsally removed his racist comment.
      - tsally 17y ago
        It is only by your own racist assumption that white males are the best for that. There are more male billionaires and Nobel winners than any other demographic in the world. If I wanted to maximize my output of these types of alumni in the short term, my class would overwhelmingly be male. --- It's a subtle point, but this statement is far from racist. You should exercise more care throwing around such a serious term in the future. EDIT: I'm going to change my statements to males in general, so you can't play the race card and obnoxiously ignore my point. Let the record show my original contention was white male, which I still stand by.
        mbrubeck 17y ago
        "There are more white male billionaires than any other demographic in the world." So "billionaire" is a good statistical predictor for being male. That does not imply that "male" is a good predictor for being a billionaire.
csmajorfive 17y ago
There's more to life than dollars and prizes. I went to one of these schools and as a freshman would've probably had the same reaction -- who needs forced diversity? Why admit people on factors besides the quantitative? If the rich kids score better, they deserve it more. I'm proud to have graduated with a different outlook. The diversity of background, opportunity, and thought created by these policies is worth it. Sure, they're not perfect. Asians should not be penalized and, for that matter, we should probably just look at income rather than skin color. Nonetheless, the answer is not to eliminate "soft factors" from the process. I cherish time spent with my housemates and girlfriends who did not have the same opportunities I did in high school. They're off doing wonderful things now and will succeed by the traditional metrics.

by codexon 17y ago

amichail 17y ago

Perhaps diversity is part of the education.

uuilly 17y ago
Diversity in what? Color of skin? What about political or Religious beliefs? Those attributes are a lot more definitive than skin color.
btilly 17y ago
Absolutely. Elite schools are selling a product. And the product that Harvard, Yale, etc sell is the image that they create well-rounded future leaders who are going places. There is an easy way to see whether you're part of the target market the school is selling to. Just look at how much financial aid they are willing to give you. If they are willing to give you generous financial aid, then you're part of the product being sold, not the target market. According to Harvard's current financial aid packages, if your parents make under $60,000, you're part of the product. If they make up to $120,000, you get steep discounts. If you're honest, there is an even easier way to judge. When I was at Dartmouth College the figure I heard was that they got more in donations each year than tuition. If your family is able to make those donations, then you are really in their target market.

tsally 17y ago

By that logic every school should admit as many males as it can. Let's not even get into race, you're cutting out most women of any color. Turns out that making billions and winning the Nobel prize isn't what education is really about.

codexon 17y ago
You are looking at it the wrong way. There is a difference between simply selecting only white males and and simply selecting based on academic merit.
- tsally 17y ago
  You are looking at it the wrong way. I'm only looking at it through the lens you presented, which was maximizing the number of billionaires and Nobel winners. If I'm looking at it wrong, it's your logic that is at fault. There is a difference between simply selecting only white males and and simply selecting based on academic merit. You need to reassess the idea that selecting the most academically talented students will result in the most successful graduating class.
  - codexon 17y ago
    It is only by your own racist assumption that white males are the best for that. Edit This comment was at +4, but people are now downvoting it for looking like a non sequitur because tsally removed his racist comment.
    - tsally 17y ago
      It is only by your own racist assumption that white males are the best for that. There are more male billionaires and Nobel winners than any other demographic in the world. If I wanted to maximize my output of these types of alumni in the short term, my class would overwhelmingly be male. --- It's a subtle point, but this statement is far from racist. You should exercise more care throwing around such a serious term in the future. EDIT: I'm going to change my statements to males in general, so you can't play the race card and obnoxiously ignore my point. Let the record show my original contention was white male, which I still stand by.
      - mbrubeck 17y ago
        "There are more white male billionaires than any other demographic in the world." So "billionaire" is a good statistical predictor for being male. That does not imply that "male" is a good predictor for being a billionaire.

csmajorfive 17y ago

There's more to life than dollars and prizes. I went to one of these schools and as a freshman would've probably had the same reaction -- who needs forced diversity? Why admit people on factors besides the quantitative? If the rich kids score better, they deserve it more. I'm proud to have graduated with a different outlook. The diversity of background, opportunity, and thought created by these policies is worth it. Sure, they're not perfect. Asians should not be penalized and, for that matter, we should probably just look at income rather than skin color. Nonetheless, the answer is not to eliminate "soft factors" from the process. I cherish time spent with my housemates and girlfriends who did not have the same opportunities I did in high school. They're off doing wonderful things now and will succeed by the traditional metrics.