8 ms·

A customer service rotation for everyone in the company is more important.

by lexap 12y ago

indymike 12y ago
I think sales may be more important. Getting an appreciation for how hard it is to get a customer would alter how a lot of engineers think about features. Customer service is honestly easy in comparison.
- einhverfr 12y ago
  Agreed, but one huge problem here is that getting a customer often requires more than a checklist of features, but rather a product that solves a customer's problem well. I agree that sales, support, and engineering should all have rotations. The sales and support give you very different insights into what customers need which help you out with your engineering.
tomjen3 12y ago
If you want your good engineers to leave you, yes. Oh and have even less care for your customers after that.
- Sanddancer 12y ago
  If you truly feel that way, then I honestly am curious as to why you get up in the morning. Dogfooding, and listening to customer problems and feedback are two of the best ways of making your product better for everyone. A few hours on the phone, or responding to emails is fantastic for breaking up preconceived notions as to what people are doing with your project, and can give new ideas.
  - tomjen3 12y ago
    To solve interesting problems, not helping people opening the blue googles.
    - ema 12y ago
      I love to solve interesting problems as much as any hacker, but software businesses are about helping people and when people are having trouble using their computer then that is part of the job. I think it's worth to spend 1% of your work time on customer support to gain an understanding of that on a deep, visceral level.
    - Sanddancer 12y ago
      A superficially boring issue like someone who doesn't know how to fucking google it could be a much more interesting problem. Is your program laid out well? Is there some hitch in the workflow that you're not noticing because you've gotten accustomed to some misfeature? Are they trying to do something with the software that you didn't intend, but could make good money at by offering as a companion product, or other upgrade? These are things that support can teach you, because you're actively engaging with someone who has a problem.
- jacalata 12y ago
  For some values of 'good', perhaps. Probably not the one they measure with.
pnathan 12y ago
I agree. Understanding the customer is a key principle of good business. To paraphrase Ducker, you're selling satisfaction to the customer, and if you're building it, you should know what makes for a happy customer.
stevesearer 12y ago
Zappos does this and their customer service is some of the best in the business: "Each new employee goes through a rigorous month-long training that focuses on nothing but customer service. They spend 40 hours on the phones helping our customers because regardless of the specific department they were hired for, customer service is the priority. Each holiday season when call volume goes up, everyone in the company pitches in and jumps on the phones because we want to maintain the same level of service no matter how busy it gets." http://www.zapposinsights.com/blog/item/zappos-insights-announces-its-latest-offering-in-culture-and-customer-service-training-the-school-of-wow http://www.zapposinsights.com/blog/item/zappos-insights-anno...
- paulhauggis 12y ago
  So instead of temporary staff, they take people off of their current projects to work in customer service?? This doesn't sound like a good idea to me. Especially since I've been in positions where I have been on tight deadlines. The most likely outcome in this scenario is that the employee will not only have to get their customer service rotations done, but also get their tight-deadline project done. With me, it's difficult to move from customer service right back to software development/engineering.
  - ziziyO 12y ago
    That makes the assumption that zappos has tight-deadline projects that take priority over taking care of their customers. If they're truly a customer comes first type company, they'll make room to take care of the CSR.
  - einhverfr 12y ago
    > So instead of temporary staff, they take people off of their current projects to work in customer service?? This doesn't sound like a good idea to me. Why not? It improves solidarity. Actually when I worked at Microsoft doing tech support, I got pulled off the phones to help with sudden mandatory tech support rotations due to virus outbreaks. It was great to see marketing managers have to help people assess whether their systems were infected and apply appropriate tools. I would take escallations but generally people did a good job. (Oh and these people showed up with very little training on customer service or tech support so that was fun). But I think one thing that Microsoft got out of it (this was in 2002-2003) was a stronger sense by everyone why it was important to focus more on system security. I think this improved the company and lead to better software. > Especially since I've been in positions where I have been on tight deadlines. If management know of the rotation, they will have to adjust the deadlines. How many deadlines are really necessary beyond a simple measurement rationale? Management can usually adjust as needed, or reschedule the rotation to a better point. > With me, it's difficult to move from customer service right back to software development/engineering. Isn't the point though to ensure that people are engineering and developing software with customer service in mind?
pacaro 12y ago
At the first software job I had (94-97), every engineer was expected to do customer support on rotation. Typically it amounted to one day a fortnight. I found it to be hugely helpful, in particular the software we were building (Desktop GIS) wasn't something that I was going to use myself, so understanding what the users got hung up on was really helpful. We could also be pretty responsive, it wasn't unusual to just fix a bug either while on the phone to someone, or within an hour or so of getting off the phone, and then we could just dump in on our BBS and tell them to dial-up and download it...
kevingessner 12y ago
Etsy does support rotations for engineers -- even our CEO does his share: https://twitter.com/chaddickerson/status/545313526626385920 https://twitter.com/chaddickerson/status/545313526626385920
bucky 12y ago
Everyone in the company does these as well (our CEO Chad answered did his holiday rotation a couple weeks ago), typically during the holiday season when we slow down our deploys and our support volume increases. But we're encouraged as engineers to do them once a quarter. I don't know if it's more important, but I agree with the sentiment that customer service rotations are extremely important. Nothing brings your brilliant head-in-the-clouds engineering ego crashing down to earth like reading an email from a frustrated user who can't figure out how to get (what you thought was) your brilliant product working right.

A customer service rotation for everyone in the company is more important.

by lexap 12y ago

A customer service rotation for everyone in the company is more important.

I think sales may be more important. Getting an appreciation for how hard it is to get a customer would alter how a lot of engineers think about features. Customer service is honestly easy in comparison.

einhverfr 12y ago
Agreed, but one huge problem here is that getting a customer often requires more than a checklist of features, but rather a product that solves a customer's problem well. I agree that sales, support, and engineering should all have rotations. The sales and support give you very different insights into what customers need which help you out with your engineering.

tomjen3 12y ago

If you want your good engineers to leave you, yes. Oh and have even less care for your customers after that.

Sanddancer 12y ago
If you truly feel that way, then I honestly am curious as to why you get up in the morning. Dogfooding, and listening to customer problems and feedback are two of the best ways of making your product better for everyone. A few hours on the phone, or responding to emails is fantastic for breaking up preconceived notions as to what people are doing with your project, and can give new ideas.
- tomjen3 12y ago
  To solve interesting problems, not helping people opening the blue googles.
  - ema 12y ago
    I love to solve interesting problems as much as any hacker, but software businesses are about helping people and when people are having trouble using their computer then that is part of the job. I think it's worth to spend 1% of your work time on customer support to gain an understanding of that on a deep, visceral level.
  - Sanddancer 12y ago
    A superficially boring issue like someone who doesn't know how to fucking google it could be a much more interesting problem. Is your program laid out well? Is there some hitch in the workflow that you're not noticing because you've gotten accustomed to some misfeature? Are they trying to do something with the software that you didn't intend, but could make good money at by offering as a companion product, or other upgrade? These are things that support can teach you, because you're actively engaging with someone who has a problem.
jacalata 12y ago
For some values of 'good', perhaps. Probably not the one they measure with.

pnathan 12y ago

I agree. Understanding the customer is a key principle of good business. To paraphrase Ducker, you're selling satisfaction to the customer, and if you're building it, you should know what makes for a happy customer.

stevesearer 12y ago

Zappos does this and their customer service is some of the best in the business: "Each new employee goes through a rigorous month-long training that focuses on nothing but customer service. They spend 40 hours on the phones helping our customers because regardless of the specific department they were hired for, customer service is the priority. Each holiday season when call volume goes up, everyone in the company pitches in and jumps on the phones because we want to maintain the same level of service no matter how busy it gets." http://www.zapposinsights.com/blog/item/zappos-insights-announces-its-latest-offering-in-culture-and-customer-service-training-the-school-of-wow http://www.zapposinsights.com/blog/item/zappos-insights-anno...

paulhauggis 12y ago
So instead of temporary staff, they take people off of their current projects to work in customer service?? This doesn't sound like a good idea to me. Especially since I've been in positions where I have been on tight deadlines. The most likely outcome in this scenario is that the employee will not only have to get their customer service rotations done, but also get their tight-deadline project done. With me, it's difficult to move from customer service right back to software development/engineering.
- ziziyO 12y ago
  That makes the assumption that zappos has tight-deadline projects that take priority over taking care of their customers. If they're truly a customer comes first type company, they'll make room to take care of the CSR.
- einhverfr 12y ago
  > So instead of temporary staff, they take people off of their current projects to work in customer service?? This doesn't sound like a good idea to me. Why not? It improves solidarity. Actually when I worked at Microsoft doing tech support, I got pulled off the phones to help with sudden mandatory tech support rotations due to virus outbreaks. It was great to see marketing managers have to help people assess whether their systems were infected and apply appropriate tools. I would take escallations but generally people did a good job. (Oh and these people showed up with very little training on customer service or tech support so that was fun). But I think one thing that Microsoft got out of it (this was in 2002-2003) was a stronger sense by everyone why it was important to focus more on system security. I think this improved the company and lead to better software. > Especially since I've been in positions where I have been on tight deadlines. If management know of the rotation, they will have to adjust the deadlines. How many deadlines are really necessary beyond a simple measurement rationale? Management can usually adjust as needed, or reschedule the rotation to a better point. > With me, it's difficult to move from customer service right back to software development/engineering. Isn't the point though to ensure that people are engineering and developing software with customer service in mind?

pacaro 12y ago

At the first software job I had (94-97), every engineer was expected to do customer support on rotation. Typically it amounted to one day a fortnight. I found it to be hugely helpful, in particular the software we were building (Desktop GIS) wasn't something that I was going to use myself, so understanding what the users got hung up on was really helpful. We could also be pretty responsive, it wasn't unusual to just fix a bug either while on the phone to someone, or within an hour or so of getting off the phone, and then we could just dump in on our BBS and tell them to dial-up and download it...

kevingessner 12y ago

Etsy does support rotations for engineers -- even our CEO does his share: https://twitter.com/chaddickerson/status/545313526626385920 https://twitter.com/chaddickerson/status/545313526626385920

bucky 12y ago

Everyone in the company does these as well (our CEO Chad answered did his holiday rotation a couple weeks ago), typically during the holiday season when we slow down our deploys and our support volume increases. But we're encouraged as engineers to do them once a quarter. I don't know if it's more important, but I agree with the sentiment that customer service rotations are extremely important. Nothing brings your brilliant head-in-the-clouds engineering ego crashing down to earth like reading an email from a frustrated user who can't figure out how to get (what you thought was) your brilliant product working right.