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So let me get this straight. The North Korean government publicly warns that the release of The Interview will cause dire consequences. Shortly before the relea

So let me get this straight. The North Korean government publicly warns that the release of The Interview will cause dire consequences. Shortly before the release of the film, said dire consequences occur. The moment the movie is pulled, all of a sudden the consequences stop. Right, that doesn't sound like NK was involved at all. The real question is: why are these "experts" - including some here on HN - taking such extreme and unfounded positions on this? I think it's quite likely that they didn't do the hacking themslves. Perhaps they paid members of Lulzsec to do this on their behalf. But to deny that NK is behind this is absurd and makes the whole security community look crazier than Kim Jong-Un.

lotsofmangos 12y ago
The dire consequences include the release by the hackers of the exact bit of video that NK is claiming they never want released. Now that is absurd.
joenathan 12y ago
> including some here on HN - taking such extreme and unfounded positions on this? I think it's quite likely that they didn't do the hacking themslves. Perhaps they paid members of Lulzsec to do this... I'm struggling to see how you don't see the irony or hypocrisy in what you are saying.
- downandout 12y ago
  ? All I said was that I don't know who actually carried it out, but it's pretty obvious that it served NK's interests.
  - Squarel 12y ago
    No, you said "But to deny that NK is behind this is absurd and makes the whole security community look crazier than Kim Jong-Un"
    - deleted 12y ago
      [deleted]
gthaman 12y ago
My understanding is that the movie was not once mentioned by the hacker(s) or the victim (Sony) but rather the first mention of the movie was by a popular American news outlet. In this context the two narratives of "north korea did it, okay?" and "perhaps one of the 8,000 laid off tech department workers at Sony did it" are easy to understand. Sony's multiple layoffs of its digital unit workers gave certain employees time to orchestrate this. And on the cry wolf side, the big 3 American media companies started going down their own rabbit hole of speculation and fear mongering. Do you remember the last time (if ever) any of these "News Outlets" have rescinded their accusations (especially regarding 'war') after making such strong accusations for so long ?
- downandout 12y ago
  In this context the two narratives of "north korea did it, okay?" and "perhaps one of the 8,000 laid off tech department workers at Sony did it" are easy to understand. These two narratives are not mutually exclusive. NK could easily have hired one of these people. I don't know who carried it out but I'm 99% sure I know who is behind it.
  - lotsofmangos 12y ago
    I don't know who carried it out but I'm 99% sure I know who is behind it. And how confident are you that this isn't the Dunning–Kruger effect in action?
dasil003 12y ago
I don't see why you are so self-assured in this. As far as I'm concerned, the media circus around this makes the truth completely unknowable. I'm definitely skeptical that NK is behind it for the simple reason of who benefits from that narrative. Obviously it sounds better for Sony if they were hacked by a rogue state rather than a handful of disgruntled individuals. The media loves a good story and is ecstatic to whip this up into a major political frenzy, dragging in the US government and whomever else they can in order to drive page views. NK wants more than anything to be taken seriously and feared; so even if they deny it you can't see them being too upset about the allegations. It seems to me interests are aligning in a perfect storm here, and that makes me very very skeptical. That doesn't mean I firmly believe they weren't involved, but just that I don't think we have any reasonable chance of getting at the truth.
Squarel 12y ago
The initial contact with Sony did not make any mention of the movie, and was more like an extortion attempted related to the lifting of data through Sonys less than optimal security. Then talk came up of it being related to the movie (in the Press, or from Sony), and unsurprisingly, the next contacts suggested that the movie had something to do with it. The original group also seems to have said that they did not send threats to Sony employees after the docs were uploaded, and the contact to the movie theaters was different than that to Sony. Unfounded basis? Possibly, but no more unfounded than the assumptions being made, which basically amount to "Last saturday, a black Ford Fiesta was involved in a bank robbery, driven by a guy wearing black pants and a blue top. Today, I saw a black Ford Fiesta with a guy wearing black pants and a blue top, he must be going to rob a bank". Fairly nice timeline here https://np.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/2puo8h/bittorrent_offers_distribute_sonys_the_interview/cn0ksh7 https://np.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/2puo8h/bittorrent... Source for the original email, a plain extortion http://mashable.com/2014/12/08/hackers-emailed-sony-execs/ http://mashable.com/2014/12/08/hackers-emailed-sony-execs/ Other sources for skeptical views: http://www.tomsguide.com/us/sony-hack-skeptics,news-20037.html http://www.tomsguide.com/us/sony-hack-skeptics,news-20037.ht... http://www.wired.com/2014/12/evidence-of-north-korea-hack-is-thin/ http://www.wired.com/2014/12/evidence-of-north-korea-hack-is... The original group deny the threats: http://recode.net/2014/12/08/sony-hacker-leaks-more-internal-documents-issues-demand/ http://recode.net/2014/12/08/sony-hacker-leaks-more-internal... The alleged initial group also says here it is not about the movie: http://www.csoonline.com/article/2853893/disaster-recovery/fbi-memo-warns-of-malware-possibly-linked-to-hack-at-sony-pictures.html http://www.csoonline.com/article/2853893/disaster-recovery/f... My reading of it is that it is not 1 attack, but several different ones (no surprise given Sonys crappy security), and people are assuming it is all one group, and taking the first option given to be the actual one, as, let's face it, the group behind it is unlikely to ever be caught, and during this whole thing, since Sony bought up the fact they thought it was about the movie, NK has been low hanging fruit as an obvious choice.
jack9 12y ago
> The North Korean government publicly warns that the release of The Interview will cause dire consequences. They say that about a lot of things. > Shortly before the release of the film, said dire consequences occur. No, it did not. The Sony hack does not meet any definition of "dire" nor a specific event aforementioned by NK. > The moment the movie is pulled, all of a sudden the consequences stop. Nothing started, nothing stopped. So I guess you're kinda right? Either way, this stop posting drivel.

lotsofmangos 12y ago

The dire consequences include the release by the hackers of the exact bit of video that NK is claiming they never want released. Now that is absurd.

joenathan 12y ago

> including some here on HN - taking such extreme and unfounded positions on this? I think it's quite likely that they didn't do the hacking themslves. Perhaps they paid members of Lulzsec to do this... I'm struggling to see how you don't see the irony or hypocrisy in what you are saying.

downandout 12y ago
? All I said was that I don't know who actually carried it out, but it's pretty obvious that it served NK's interests.
- Squarel 12y ago
  No, you said "But to deny that NK is behind this is absurd and makes the whole security community look crazier than Kim Jong-Un"
  - deleted 12y ago
    [deleted]

gthaman 12y ago

My understanding is that the movie was not once mentioned by the hacker(s) or the victim (Sony) but rather the first mention of the movie was by a popular American news outlet. In this context the two narratives of "north korea did it, okay?" and "perhaps one of the 8,000 laid off tech department workers at Sony did it" are easy to understand. Sony's multiple layoffs of its digital unit workers gave certain employees time to orchestrate this. And on the cry wolf side, the big 3 American media companies started going down their own rabbit hole of speculation and fear mongering. Do you remember the last time (if ever) any of these "News Outlets" have rescinded their accusations (especially regarding 'war') after making such strong accusations for so long ?

downandout 12y ago
In this context the two narratives of "north korea did it, okay?" and "perhaps one of the 8,000 laid off tech department workers at Sony did it" are easy to understand. These two narratives are not mutually exclusive. NK could easily have hired one of these people. I don't know who carried it out but I'm 99% sure I know who is behind it.
- lotsofmangos 12y ago
  I don't know who carried it out but I'm 99% sure I know who is behind it. And how confident are you that this isn't the Dunning–Kruger effect in action?

dasil003 12y ago

I don't see why you are so self-assured in this. As far as I'm concerned, the media circus around this makes the truth completely unknowable. I'm definitely skeptical that NK is behind it for the simple reason of who benefits from that narrative. Obviously it sounds better for Sony if they were hacked by a rogue state rather than a handful of disgruntled individuals. The media loves a good story and is ecstatic to whip this up into a major political frenzy, dragging in the US government and whomever else they can in order to drive page views. NK wants more than anything to be taken seriously and feared; so even if they deny it you can't see them being too upset about the allegations. It seems to me interests are aligning in a perfect storm here, and that makes me very very skeptical. That doesn't mean I firmly believe they weren't involved, but just that I don't think we have any reasonable chance of getting at the truth.

Squarel 12y ago

The initial contact with Sony did not make any mention of the movie, and was more like an extortion attempted related to the lifting of data through Sonys less than optimal security. Then talk came up of it being related to the movie (in the Press, or from Sony), and unsurprisingly, the next contacts suggested that the movie had something to do with it. The original group also seems to have said that they did not send threats to Sony employees after the docs were uploaded, and the contact to the movie theaters was different than that to Sony. Unfounded basis? Possibly, but no more unfounded than the assumptions being made, which basically amount to "Last saturday, a black Ford Fiesta was involved in a bank robbery, driven by a guy wearing black pants and a blue top. Today, I saw a black Ford Fiesta with a guy wearing black pants and a blue top, he must be going to rob a bank". Fairly nice timeline here https://np.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/2puo8h/bittorrent_offers_distribute_sonys_the_interview/cn0ksh7 https://np.reddit.com/r/worldnews/comments/2puo8h/bittorrent... Source for the original email, a plain extortion http://mashable.com/2014/12/08/hackers-emailed-sony-execs/ http://mashable.com/2014/12/08/hackers-emailed-sony-execs/ Other sources for skeptical views: http://www.tomsguide.com/us/sony-hack-skeptics,news-20037.html http://www.tomsguide.com/us/sony-hack-skeptics,news-20037.ht... http://www.wired.com/2014/12/evidence-of-north-korea-hack-is-thin/ http://www.wired.com/2014/12/evidence-of-north-korea-hack-is... The original group deny the threats: http://recode.net/2014/12/08/sony-hacker-leaks-more-internal-documents-issues-demand/ http://recode.net/2014/12/08/sony-hacker-leaks-more-internal... The alleged initial group also says here it is not about the movie: http://www.csoonline.com/article/2853893/disaster-recovery/fbi-memo-warns-of-malware-possibly-linked-to-hack-at-sony-pictures.html http://www.csoonline.com/article/2853893/disaster-recovery/f... My reading of it is that it is not 1 attack, but several different ones (no surprise given Sonys crappy security), and people are assuming it is all one group, and taking the first option given to be the actual one, as, let's face it, the group behind it is unlikely to ever be caught, and during this whole thing, since Sony bought up the fact they thought it was about the movie, NK has been low hanging fruit as an obvious choice.

jack9 12y ago

> The North Korean government publicly warns that the release of The Interview will cause dire consequences. They say that about a lot of things. > Shortly before the release of the film, said dire consequences occur. No, it did not. The Sony hack does not meet any definition of "dire" nor a specific event aforementioned by NK. > The moment the movie is pulled, all of a sudden the consequences stop. Nothing started, nothing stopped. So I guess you're kinda right? Either way, this stop posting drivel.