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How messed up is "our industry" - internationally speaking - if succeeding outside of SC is a major feat? Or maybe it was more about succeeding in software in

by Dewie 12y ago

How messed up is "our industry" - internationally speaking - if succeeding outside of SC is a major feat? Or maybe it was more about succeeding in software in Sicily.

coffeemug 12y ago
Not messed up at all. In any industry networks of people matter, which is why industries tend to cluster in geographic areas. Movies in Hollywood, finance in NYC, software in SV, government in DC, oil & gas in Texas. Virtual collaboration tools are significantly reducing the barriers, but there is still no substitute for building professional relationships in meatspace. So doing something impressive in a field outside of the human network is an exception, not the rule.
- Dewie 12y ago
  To have just one cluster IS messed up. It would be one thing if Italy had its own tech cluster, or even if all of Europe only had one cluster. I never said that "meatspace" (what a terrible term, btw) isn't important. But why can't it be more distributed? Not surprising that an apparent American isn't as concerned about it as me, though. Let's all move to the US and then make conferences about how the tech industry needs more diversity. The conferences will be hosted in Silicon Valley, of course. There will be free catering and foosball.
  - lclarkmichalek 12y ago
    Well, there are efforts to have an Italian cluster (http://www.h-farmventures.com/en/ http://www.h-farmventures.com/en/ and similar), the European cluster is probably London, and the global cluster is SV for sure. It's not _that_ terrible.
    - andrea_s 12y ago
      Sadly, h-farm does not really play in the same league of even third rate incubators in sv, both from cash and expertise perspective... And it doesn't look like it's going to change anytime soon
      - davidw 12y ago
        It's a neat place, but it's also way too isolated. You can't have an "ecosystem" if everything else around you is farms: https://www.google.com/maps/place/H-Farm/@45.554728,12.4289882,6135m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0x4a11258524a51b8e https://www.google.com/maps/place/H-Farm/@45.554728,12.42898...
  - coffeemug 12y ago
    I'm a Ukrainian/Jewish American (though I do, admittedly, live and work in SV). It's not that I'm in favor of only having one cluster, I've just accepted it as a fact of life. To some degree this has always been the case -- art in Florence, music in Vienna, etc. etc. etc. There are tons of examples. I'd love for other major clusters to emerge, but sociological laws are as real as the laws of physics. It's no use to lament the inconvenience of gravity, and it's no use to lament the inconvenience of network effects. They simply exist.
    - Dewie 12y ago
      > I'd love for other major clusters to emerge, but sociological laws are as real as the laws of physics. It's no use to lament the inconvenience of gravity, and it's no use to lament the inconvenience of network effects. They simply exist. Hand-waving pseudo science. Do you have anything concrete?
      - coffeemug 12y ago
        Just this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principle_of_charity http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principle_of_charity
        Dewie 12y ago
        So you're saying that I should, by the Principle of charity, just accept that your explanation is true and actually has some merit from a sociological perspective with no actual evidence? I don't think the point of that particular principle is so that you can get away with saying that things are true, in the same way that gravity is true. That's a pretty high standard to set for some truth! EDIT: serial down votes are nice. "Hey, screw this guy, let's down vote all of his posts in this particular thread".
        stefantalpalaru 12y ago
        Don't take it personally. They also did it to me. While we lack the "knights of /new" from reddit, we have a new breed of "knights of serial downvoting" :-)
twic 12y ago
Succeeding outside Silicon Valley isn't a major feat. More people have done that than have succeeded inside Silicon Valley. Now, mostly, although not exclusively, they have done this in other large urban areas - New York, London, Boston, etc. Succeeding outside one of those, in a rural area with no historical track record in technology, though, is something of a feat.

by Dewie 12y ago

How messed up is "our industry" - internationally speaking - if succeeding outside of SC is a major feat? Or maybe it was more about succeeding in software in Sicily.

coffeemug 12y ago

Not messed up at all. In any industry networks of people matter, which is why industries tend to cluster in geographic areas. Movies in Hollywood, finance in NYC, software in SV, government in DC, oil & gas in Texas. Virtual collaboration tools are significantly reducing the barriers, but there is still no substitute for building professional relationships in meatspace. So doing something impressive in a field outside of the human network is an exception, not the rule.

Dewie 12y ago
To have just one cluster IS messed up. It would be one thing if Italy had its own tech cluster, or even if all of Europe only had one cluster. I never said that "meatspace" (what a terrible term, btw) isn't important. But why can't it be more distributed? Not surprising that an apparent American isn't as concerned about it as me, though. Let's all move to the US and then make conferences about how the tech industry needs more diversity. The conferences will be hosted in Silicon Valley, of course. There will be free catering and foosball.
- lclarkmichalek 12y ago
  Well, there are efforts to have an Italian cluster (http://www.h-farmventures.com/en/ http://www.h-farmventures.com/en/ and similar), the European cluster is probably London, and the global cluster is SV for sure. It's not _that_ terrible.
  - andrea_s 12y ago
    Sadly, h-farm does not really play in the same league of even third rate incubators in sv, both from cash and expertise perspective... And it doesn't look like it's going to change anytime soon
    - davidw 12y ago
      It's a neat place, but it's also way too isolated. You can't have an "ecosystem" if everything else around you is farms: https://www.google.com/maps/place/H-Farm/@45.554728,12.4289882,6135m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0x4a11258524a51b8e https://www.google.com/maps/place/H-Farm/@45.554728,12.42898...
- coffeemug 12y ago
  I'm a Ukrainian/Jewish American (though I do, admittedly, live and work in SV). It's not that I'm in favor of only having one cluster, I've just accepted it as a fact of life. To some degree this has always been the case -- art in Florence, music in Vienna, etc. etc. etc. There are tons of examples. I'd love for other major clusters to emerge, but sociological laws are as real as the laws of physics. It's no use to lament the inconvenience of gravity, and it's no use to lament the inconvenience of network effects. They simply exist.
  - Dewie 12y ago
    > I'd love for other major clusters to emerge, but sociological laws are as real as the laws of physics. It's no use to lament the inconvenience of gravity, and it's no use to lament the inconvenience of network effects. They simply exist. Hand-waving pseudo science. Do you have anything concrete?
    - coffeemug 12y ago
      Just this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principle_of_charity http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principle_of_charity
      - Dewie 12y ago
        So you're saying that I should, by the Principle of charity, just accept that your explanation is true and actually has some merit from a sociological perspective with no actual evidence? I don't think the point of that particular principle is so that you can get away with saying that things are true, in the same way that gravity is true. That's a pretty high standard to set for some truth! EDIT: serial down votes are nice. "Hey, screw this guy, let's down vote all of his posts in this particular thread".
        stefantalpalaru 12y ago
        Don't take it personally. They also did it to me. While we lack the "knights of /new" from reddit, we have a new breed of "knights of serial downvoting" :-)

twic 12y ago

Succeeding outside Silicon Valley isn't a major feat. More people have done that than have succeeded inside Silicon Valley. Now, mostly, although not exclusively, they have done this in other large urban areas - New York, London, Boston, etc. Succeeding outside one of those, in a rural area with no historical track record in technology, though, is something of a feat.