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Or Texas. Or, as I have heard, Florida. Now that there is a proper software engineering PE exam, maybe more states will follow. It makes sense for safety criti

Or Texas. Or, as I have heard, Florida. Now that there is a proper software engineering PE exam, maybe more states will follow. It makes sense for safety critical areas to hold people to professional standards and legal liability. Edit: speling

mynameisvlad 12y ago
Updated to be more general, I thought Canada was unique due to some of the ceremonies engineers go through (eg. Iron ring)
- cjslep 12y ago
  NC State University has adopted the same ceremony, though it is not well known and leads to really weird conversations occasionally, until I mention that the ring does not mean I'm homosexual.
- mcmancini 12y ago
  No, and the US has an "Order of the Engineer" modeled after that. It always seemed silly to me to wear a ring on your working hand when the first thing you do when working with your hands is to take of jewelry. "Engineer" is a protected job title in the US, but most are able to operate under an industrial exemption and so legally use the title. The reason why some are picky about the title is that it is a licensed profession, and has some expectations associated with it. If someone tells me they're an engineer, I assume they know how to use a Laplace transform, because that's common across disciplines at the undergraduate level. Same as applying perturbation theory at the graduate level. Same as having a common corpus of basic science knowledge. Same as with professional code of ethics. Etc. To use your own logic above, calling yourself a software ninja doesn't make you a ninja, and calling yourself a software engineer doesn't make you an engineer. It might be legal, but it's crass.
  - mynameisvlad 12y ago
    > Laplace transform, because that's common across disciplines at the undergraduate level At your specific institution. Every school has different curriculum, both within the engineering programs themselves, and when compared to other schools. There is no unified curriculum nor is there one unified thing that all engineers, regardless of their schooling, would know because I'm sure, at one school or another, that one thing would not be taught. And what, exactly, is so crass about it? As I said, it's just a goddamn title. A made up word used to describe yourself. There's nothing inherently disrespectful about using a title. It doesn't instantly diminish the title of every other engineer on the planet just because someone decided to call themselves an engineer without getting a B.AS. I could call myself the Queen of Rotunda, my made up domain. That doesn't suddenly mean that I'm disrespecting Queen Elizabeth, or any other queen in the world.
    - mcmancini 12y ago
      I'm not sure you're informed on this topic. The whole point of having ABET accredit programs is to standardize a basic body of knowledge. Curricula in mechanical, chemical, electrical, and biomedical all include solving DEQ and PDE systems. Solving those without Laplace transforms is cruel, once the basic principles are understood of course. If it's just a goddamn title, then you wouldn't be so insistent on using it. You want to use it because it implies a level of education and professionalism. It's crass to use the title because there is such a thing as software engineering, and the people most strongly insisting to use the title don't practice it. Like I said, you can legally use it, but licensed engineers are rolling their eyes when your back is turned.
      - mynameisvlad 12y ago
        The very fact that you have a body accrediting programs means that there will be many schools serving up engineering degrees that are not accredited by ABET or one of its member societies, especially internationally. Are these people suddenly not engineers just because a licensing body has not bestowed their program the honour of accreditation? Just because there's an accreditation board does not suddenly make it the only ruling body on who can use the title "engineer". Unless it's actually illegal to be an engineer without being accredited by ABET, then their word really means jack shit. > there is such a thing as software engineering Which differs from place to place, yes. Not every program has been accredited but still provide software engineering degrees, perhaps with elements that would not be found in another's curriculum. > and the people most strongly insisting to use the title don't practice it Just because you don't have an accreditation does not mean you "don't practice it". > Like I said, you can legally use it, but licensed engineers are rolling their eyes when your back is turned. Good for them. They can roll their eyes all they want, it doesn't make them more right to do it.
nlksnclds 12y ago
Don't forget all of Germany.

mynameisvlad 12y ago

Updated to be more general, I thought Canada was unique due to some of the ceremonies engineers go through (eg. Iron ring)

cjslep 12y ago
NC State University has adopted the same ceremony, though it is not well known and leads to really weird conversations occasionally, until I mention that the ring does not mean I'm homosexual.
mcmancini 12y ago
No, and the US has an "Order of the Engineer" modeled after that. It always seemed silly to me to wear a ring on your working hand when the first thing you do when working with your hands is to take of jewelry. "Engineer" is a protected job title in the US, but most are able to operate under an industrial exemption and so legally use the title. The reason why some are picky about the title is that it is a licensed profession, and has some expectations associated with it. If someone tells me they're an engineer, I assume they know how to use a Laplace transform, because that's common across disciplines at the undergraduate level. Same as applying perturbation theory at the graduate level. Same as having a common corpus of basic science knowledge. Same as with professional code of ethics. Etc. To use your own logic above, calling yourself a software ninja doesn't make you a ninja, and calling yourself a software engineer doesn't make you an engineer. It might be legal, but it's crass.
- mynameisvlad 12y ago
  > Laplace transform, because that's common across disciplines at the undergraduate level At your specific institution. Every school has different curriculum, both within the engineering programs themselves, and when compared to other schools. There is no unified curriculum nor is there one unified thing that all engineers, regardless of their schooling, would know because I'm sure, at one school or another, that one thing would not be taught. And what, exactly, is so crass about it? As I said, it's just a goddamn title. A made up word used to describe yourself. There's nothing inherently disrespectful about using a title. It doesn't instantly diminish the title of every other engineer on the planet just because someone decided to call themselves an engineer without getting a B.AS. I could call myself the Queen of Rotunda, my made up domain. That doesn't suddenly mean that I'm disrespecting Queen Elizabeth, or any other queen in the world.
  - mcmancini 12y ago
    I'm not sure you're informed on this topic. The whole point of having ABET accredit programs is to standardize a basic body of knowledge. Curricula in mechanical, chemical, electrical, and biomedical all include solving DEQ and PDE systems. Solving those without Laplace transforms is cruel, once the basic principles are understood of course. If it's just a goddamn title, then you wouldn't be so insistent on using it. You want to use it because it implies a level of education and professionalism. It's crass to use the title because there is such a thing as software engineering, and the people most strongly insisting to use the title don't practice it. Like I said, you can legally use it, but licensed engineers are rolling their eyes when your back is turned.
    - mynameisvlad 12y ago
      The very fact that you have a body accrediting programs means that there will be many schools serving up engineering degrees that are not accredited by ABET or one of its member societies, especially internationally. Are these people suddenly not engineers just because a licensing body has not bestowed their program the honour of accreditation? Just because there's an accreditation board does not suddenly make it the only ruling body on who can use the title "engineer". Unless it's actually illegal to be an engineer without being accredited by ABET, then their word really means jack shit. > there is such a thing as software engineering Which differs from place to place, yes. Not every program has been accredited but still provide software engineering degrees, perhaps with elements that would not be found in another's curriculum. > and the people most strongly insisting to use the title don't practice it Just because you don't have an accreditation does not mean you "don't practice it". > Like I said, you can legally use it, but licensed engineers are rolling their eyes when your back is turned. Good for them. They can roll their eyes all they want, it doesn't make them more right to do it.

nlksnclds 12y ago

Don't forget all of Germany.