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>assume the best of a fellow engineer Quit calling yourselves that: you're all web developers, not engineers. At the end of the day, 95% of what people on HN

>assume the best of a fellow engineer Quit calling yourselves that: you're all web developers, not engineers. At the end of the day, 95% of what people on HN do revolves around making pretty websites for the internet. You have not taken the FE exam, you did not study engineering, you are not certified as an engineer. This is just the latest way that CS graduates are trying to self aggrandize and de-trivialize their profession.

iN7h33nD 12y ago
I would say "making pretty websites" is still engineering because they are working with machines to design and manufacture [0]. This makes anyone who does it an engineer. I find it rather offensive to generalize everyone on HN into one category. I have read comments from people in all stages of life and many different professions and we do not need this kind of talk. [0] http://www.thefreedictionary.com/engineering http://www.thefreedictionary.com/engineering
schlarpc 12y ago
There is nothing to stop a software developer from taking the "other disciplines" FE and the "software engineering" PE.
- nlksnclds 12y ago
  Absolutely, but in the context of HN's "silicon valley hacker" culture, that seems pretty unlikely here.
  - CamperBob2 12y ago
    How much of the hardware and software you're using now was originally conceived and designed by credentialed PEs and FEs? You can walk up to Woz and tell him he wasn't an "engineer" when he designed the original Apple hardware, but you can't possibly expect anyone with a clue to take you seriously.
mynameisvlad 12y ago
Unless you are in some specific locations such as Canada, where the term "engineer" is tightly controlled, then you can call yourself whatever the fuck you want. "Software engineer" does not imply any of the things you said in the United States. I can call myself a software ninja if I wanted to. That doesn't mean I practiced the art of ninjas. I can call myself a code monkey. That doesn't mean I'm actually a monkey. It's just a fucking title, so get over it. If that's my actual title at a company then I'm going to use it publicly too.
- mcmancini 12y ago
  Or Texas. Or, as I have heard, Florida. Now that there is a proper software engineering PE exam, maybe more states will follow. It makes sense for safety critical areas to hold people to professional standards and legal liability. Edit: speling
  - mynameisvlad 12y ago
    Updated to be more general, I thought Canada was unique due to some of the ceremonies engineers go through (eg. Iron ring)
    - cjslep 12y ago
      NC State University has adopted the same ceremony, though it is not well known and leads to really weird conversations occasionally, until I mention that the ring does not mean I'm homosexual.
    - mcmancini 12y ago
      No, and the US has an "Order of the Engineer" modeled after that. It always seemed silly to me to wear a ring on your working hand when the first thing you do when working with your hands is to take of jewelry. "Engineer" is a protected job title in the US, but most are able to operate under an industrial exemption and so legally use the title. The reason why some are picky about the title is that it is a licensed profession, and has some expectations associated with it. If someone tells me they're an engineer, I assume they know how to use a Laplace transform, because that's common across disciplines at the undergraduate level. Same as applying perturbation theory at the graduate level. Same as having a common corpus of basic science knowledge. Same as with professional code of ethics. Etc. To use your own logic above, calling yourself a software ninja doesn't make you a ninja, and calling yourself a software engineer doesn't make you an engineer. It might be legal, but it's crass.
Anderkent 12y ago
It says Master of Engineering on my diploma, I can call myself an engineer if I want to.

iN7h33nD 12y ago

I would say "making pretty websites" is still engineering because they are working with machines to design and manufacture [0]. This makes anyone who does it an engineer. I find it rather offensive to generalize everyone on HN into one category. I have read comments from people in all stages of life and many different professions and we do not need this kind of talk. [0] http://www.thefreedictionary.com/engineering http://www.thefreedictionary.com/engineering

schlarpc 12y ago

There is nothing to stop a software developer from taking the "other disciplines" FE and the "software engineering" PE.

nlksnclds 12y ago
Absolutely, but in the context of HN's "silicon valley hacker" culture, that seems pretty unlikely here.
- CamperBob2 12y ago
  How much of the hardware and software you're using now was originally conceived and designed by credentialed PEs and FEs? You can walk up to Woz and tell him he wasn't an "engineer" when he designed the original Apple hardware, but you can't possibly expect anyone with a clue to take you seriously.

mynameisvlad 12y ago

Unless you are in some specific locations such as Canada, where the term "engineer" is tightly controlled, then you can call yourself whatever the fuck you want. "Software engineer" does not imply any of the things you said in the United States. I can call myself a software ninja if I wanted to. That doesn't mean I practiced the art of ninjas. I can call myself a code monkey. That doesn't mean I'm actually a monkey. It's just a fucking title, so get over it. If that's my actual title at a company then I'm going to use it publicly too.

mcmancini 12y ago
Or Texas. Or, as I have heard, Florida. Now that there is a proper software engineering PE exam, maybe more states will follow. It makes sense for safety critical areas to hold people to professional standards and legal liability. Edit: speling
- mynameisvlad 12y ago
  Updated to be more general, I thought Canada was unique due to some of the ceremonies engineers go through (eg. Iron ring)
  - cjslep 12y ago
    NC State University has adopted the same ceremony, though it is not well known and leads to really weird conversations occasionally, until I mention that the ring does not mean I'm homosexual.
  - mcmancini 12y ago
    No, and the US has an "Order of the Engineer" modeled after that. It always seemed silly to me to wear a ring on your working hand when the first thing you do when working with your hands is to take of jewelry. "Engineer" is a protected job title in the US, but most are able to operate under an industrial exemption and so legally use the title. The reason why some are picky about the title is that it is a licensed profession, and has some expectations associated with it. If someone tells me they're an engineer, I assume they know how to use a Laplace transform, because that's common across disciplines at the undergraduate level. Same as applying perturbation theory at the graduate level. Same as having a common corpus of basic science knowledge. Same as with professional code of ethics. Etc. To use your own logic above, calling yourself a software ninja doesn't make you a ninja, and calling yourself a software engineer doesn't make you an engineer. It might be legal, but it's crass.

Anderkent 12y ago

It says Master of Engineering on my diploma, I can call myself an engineer if I want to.