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Salary is a very touchy issue and there's several things to consider. One, that its a negotiation and you have to be very careful in your communications and di

by dpweb 12y ago

Salary is a very touchy issue and there's several things to consider. One, that its a negotiation and you have to be very careful in your communications and diligent about protecting your own interests. As an employee you're at a built-in disadvantage. Management knows everyone's salaries, you don't. Salaries are a closely guarded secret and they maintain that informational advantage against you. So, you really have to look at industry averages for your role and decide if you are not being appropriately compd. Now, about mgmt valuing you and not letting you go. First, NEVER threaten to leave. They may preempt that and cut you, or you'll go on a list of troublemakers. Managers have lists of people in their heads they would like to cut if given the opportunity. It's the people that get cut whenever there is a layoff, when teams have to be downsized. It's important to understand mgmt's perspective. They have dozens of people in slots to get things done. No one person is indispensable, especially at the staff level where most programmers are. A slot goes open, they fill it. I've worked with managers with the biggest hearts, good guys, not mean spirited or unappreciative of their employees at all. They will not necessarily blink twice when an employee says they'll walk. I would say, if you have a good case you're under compd, or unhappy. NICELY go to mgmt. If they won't do anything, get an offer from another company. Then you have the choice to just leave, or go back to your company and you have leverage and then its going to essentially be an ultimatum to keep you. But be very nice and polite about it.

ddoolin 12y ago
> As an employee you're at a built-in disadvantage. Management knows everyone's salaries, you don't. Salaries are a closely guarded secret and they maintain that informational advantage against you. So, you really have to look at industry averages for your role and decide if you are not being appropriately compd. Not sure about other places but everywhere I've been, this is simply official policy but in reality, employees talk. While it's not always exact, I can pretty accurately say who gets paid what with a fairly slim margin of error. Keeping salaries a secret seems more for the benefit of the company who may or may not be unfairly compensating their employees for not-so-good reasons (not saying there isn't other benefits). That bit has without a doubt been key in determining, since salaries can greatly vary between companies, regions, etc. > Now, about mgmt valuing you and not letting you go. First, NEVER threaten to leave. Agreed, and this is certainly not a tactic in my arsenal because I generally like where I work and respect my managers. I have gone outside to get offers and came back with that as leverage in case things didn't work out, and that's how I ended up where I am today. That seems to be the best option since you never quite know what is going on in management's head once they know you're unhappy. Honestly I think in the case of the larger companies, managers have their hands tied by upper management or HR and aren't really willing to put their skin on the line, something I can't really blame them for for obvious reasons.
- gtirloni 12y ago
  I've worked for 4 major companies and none of them could change anything that concerned me (mostly pay and interesting work). My suggestion is not to expect much, there is just too many constraints in large companies for things to change. I think the one I'm working for now I'll be the last. Curiously, I've bothered to discuss and escalate as much as I could stand and, without getting into too much details, I was told perhaps in 1 year I should see some change. Life's just too short and we're selling our time too cheap.
  - dpweb 12y ago
    I've been exposed to many big co. IT depts and there's a conflict inherent in the situation I believe. You're there to fill a slot (do one specific job) - even more likely in big co than in small co. but the smarter someone is - the more difficult to keep them motivated. So the smarter/better employee is more likely to be unhappy. I think this is where having non-technical people managing technical people is a mistake. The technical manager is going to empathize much better with their staff and help them stay interested during those periods when a smart person becomes bored with their job. There's ways to do it. Special projects for instance, but it depends on the person. That's where there's no cookie-cutter answer and the manager actually has to make some effort and do their job.
joshu 12y ago
Going back with an offer is a huge mistake. They may renegotiate now but now you are a defector and will look to rid themselves of you as soon as possible.
- jghn 12y ago
  That's the conventional wisdom but I disagree. If you're good (in their eyes, not yours) they'll want to retain you

by dpweb 12y ago

ddoolin 12y ago

> As an employee you're at a built-in disadvantage. Management knows everyone's salaries, you don't. Salaries are a closely guarded secret and they maintain that informational advantage against you. So, you really have to look at industry averages for your role and decide if you are not being appropriately compd. Not sure about other places but everywhere I've been, this is simply official policy but in reality, employees talk. While it's not always exact, I can pretty accurately say who gets paid what with a fairly slim margin of error. Keeping salaries a secret seems more for the benefit of the company who may or may not be unfairly compensating their employees for not-so-good reasons (not saying there isn't other benefits). That bit has without a doubt been key in determining, since salaries can greatly vary between companies, regions, etc. > Now, about mgmt valuing you and not letting you go. First, NEVER threaten to leave. Agreed, and this is certainly not a tactic in my arsenal because I generally like where I work and respect my managers. I have gone outside to get offers and came back with that as leverage in case things didn't work out, and that's how I ended up where I am today. That seems to be the best option since you never quite know what is going on in management's head once they know you're unhappy. Honestly I think in the case of the larger companies, managers have their hands tied by upper management or HR and aren't really willing to put their skin on the line, something I can't really blame them for for obvious reasons.

gtirloni 12y ago
I've worked for 4 major companies and none of them could change anything that concerned me (mostly pay and interesting work). My suggestion is not to expect much, there is just too many constraints in large companies for things to change. I think the one I'm working for now I'll be the last. Curiously, I've bothered to discuss and escalate as much as I could stand and, without getting into too much details, I was told perhaps in 1 year I should see some change. Life's just too short and we're selling our time too cheap.
- dpweb 12y ago
  I've been exposed to many big co. IT depts and there's a conflict inherent in the situation I believe. You're there to fill a slot (do one specific job) - even more likely in big co than in small co. but the smarter someone is - the more difficult to keep them motivated. So the smarter/better employee is more likely to be unhappy. I think this is where having non-technical people managing technical people is a mistake. The technical manager is going to empathize much better with their staff and help them stay interested during those periods when a smart person becomes bored with their job. There's ways to do it. Special projects for instance, but it depends on the person. That's where there's no cookie-cutter answer and the manager actually has to make some effort and do their job.

joshu 12y ago

Going back with an offer is a huge mistake. They may renegotiate now but now you are a defector and will look to rid themselves of you as soon as possible.

jghn 12y ago
That's the conventional wisdom but I disagree. If you're good (in their eyes, not yours) they'll want to retain you