7 ms·

Why switching jobs is almost always a good idea

106 points by alexpotato 12y ago

ishener 12y ago
There is one point that was missed in this post: promotion. Are you more likely to land a promotion in your current job, or are you more likely to find a another job that is also a promotion to a position that you have no experience in?
- glesica 12y ago
  My guess would be that it doesn't matter. Plenty of managers and senior people are hired from outside of companies these days. And in any case, if you don't make more money, it doesn't even really matter: http://www.forbes.com/sites/cameronkeng/2014/06/22/employees-that-stay-in-companies-longer-than-2-years-get-paid-50-less/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/cameronkeng/2014/06/22/employees...
  - zeroonetwothree 12y ago
    The set of candidates that leave to get another job is different from those that stay. They are likely more skilled/motivated, and that's a large part of the job-switching premium. If everyone were to try to switch jobs many people would not be as effective.
- pdpi 12y ago
  There's a much worse point to miss in this post. Four years down the line, do you want companies looking at your CV and seeing you change jobs every 10-12 months? How good an investment are you as a hire if you're going bail shortly after you're up to speed and a productive member of the team?
  - joshvm 12y ago
    The post assumes that you're unhappy in your job. If you like where you're working and the money is enough to sustain you comfortably, why move? Just ask your bosses. If they decline a raise, then ask them what you'd have to do to get paid more. Most places should give you at the very least an annual performance review where you can discuss this sort of thing. I would be wary about someone who kept leaving after 12 months and if interviewing I would ask them to explain why. On the other hand if you have quantifiable things that you have done/built during your tenure there shouldn't necessarily be an issue. It could be a simple reason like your partner's job kept changing location and you moved with them. Not to mention that if you have a family, kids, a mortgage (i.e. a stable life), moving jobs every year isn't in any way practical.
goblin89 12y ago
> The first six months of a new job is taken up primarily by learning new systems, procedures, who to talk to etc. <…> in the beginning, you will probably feel a lot less stressed out. Weird, for me it’s the opposite—the most stressful time is when I don’t know how things work. Battling lacking or missing onboarding processes instead of working on challenges I thought I was hired to solve can be demotivating.
- blazespin 12y ago
  Yes, the first 6 months are by far the most stressful. You are far more replaceable in the first 6 months than you are after a few years. You will earn more money though. Switching jobs is the fastest way to get a pay raise.
codazzo 12y ago
If somebody ever asks me "what does mansplaining mean?" I'm just going to say, "Well you see, it's quite easy. Just read this blog post" In all seriousness, there was no need for the point in this post to be explained through such exemplary mansplaining.
- Agathos 12y ago
  We used to call this a Socratic dialogue, but I'll update my vocabulary. Thanks for the notice.
- Robin_Message 12y ago
  Oh come on. I'm not even sure "mansplaining" is a thing, but even it is, in no way does "mansplaining" == "socratic method". Also, did you even know Alex Potato is a man†? I know two Alex's, one male, and one female. I've never spoken to a potato. Or is it automatically "mansplaining" because the topic is about a specific woman being underpaid/overworked, and any helpful suggestions to that specific women (that reframe the situation and empower her to improve things herself) are automatically sexist? I mean, I'm happy to condemn employment conditions that systemically underpay women, but that won't actually help Sam, whereas this advice might. In conclusion, whilst obviously not everything men write or say that is intended to be supportive of feminism is actually helpful and supportive, it really worries me that if men who are trying to help are shot down for missing the mark, then fewer will try in future, and the only ones left commenting will be the trolls who are looking for such a reaction. † I mean, we could assume they were because they appear to work in software or the like, and play paintball, but we shouldn't do that because it would be sexist, right‡? ‡ Did I just "mansplain" there too? Ooops.
  - mparramon 12y ago
    He's a man: http://alexpotato.com/career/about.pl http://alexpotato.com/career/about.pl
    - mcnamara 12y ago
      I don't see anything on that page that indicates Alex has stated a gender identity, so that's an awfully presumptuous thing to say. Maybe you should stop mansplaining?
joelennon 12y ago
If you're not happy in your current role, make your employer aware of that fact. If you believe you are underpaid, say it. If you're overworked, say it. I'm not saying you'll necessarily get results but I think people all too often look for the door when what is making them unhappy can probably be resolved where they are. Of course if you're miserable and need a change that's a different story. But remember that if you're good, losing you is going to hit your employer hard. The cost of replacing good people is so high, any good employer will try to resolve any issues you may have in order to keep you.
- ddoolin 12y ago
  I'm having this exact issue with my current employer and my past two as well. I was and am being significantly underpaid compared to my coworkers because of my age and experience despite bringing the same level of technical skill and often taking on the larger workload (not speculative; also have 3 dependents). With the exception of the first, I have not been miserable, but without exception, all 3 have been unwilling to go to bat for my wages and would rather lose me, even while professing that that course of action would be a value loss. Maybe I'm delusional about my skill and work ethic but I have found that issues of wages are never easily resolved and it's easier to just increase your wages by switching jobs. One startup of ~20 employees and two large companies.
  - dpweb 12y ago
    Salary is a very touchy issue and there's several things to consider. One, that its a negotiation and you have to be very careful in your communications and diligent about protecting your own interests. As an employee you're at a built-in disadvantage. Management knows everyone's salaries, you don't. Salaries are a closely guarded secret and they maintain that informational advantage against you. So, you really have to look at industry averages for your role and decide if you are not being appropriately compd. Now, about mgmt valuing you and not letting you go. First, NEVER threaten to leave. They may preempt that and cut you, or you'll go on a list of troublemakers. Managers have lists of people in their heads they would like to cut if given the opportunity. It's the people that get cut whenever there is a layoff, when teams have to be downsized. It's important to understand mgmt's perspective. They have dozens of people in slots to get things done. No one person is indispensable, especially at the staff level where most programmers are. A slot goes open, they fill it. I've worked with managers with the biggest hearts, good guys, not mean spirited or unappreciative of their employees at all. They will not necessarily blink twice when an employee says they'll walk. I would say, if you have a good case you're under compd, or unhappy. NICELY go to mgmt. If they won't do anything, get an offer from another company. Then you have the choice to just leave, or go back to your company and you have leverage and then its going to essentially be an ultimatum to keep you. But be very nice and polite about it.
LukeB_UK 12y ago
My Dad always said to me that if you ever wake up and realise that you're not enjoying work anymore (or even worse, dreading it) then that's the day you start finding something or somewhere else.
- japhyr 12y ago
  He's right, burning out in your job and staying in that job makes people age quickly. Life is too short to be stuck in a miserable job, if you can do anything about it.
d357r0y3r 12y ago
In my current role, I like the company, the product, and my co-workers, but I'm almost positive I could be making 20,000 more a year in the same area. My pay is (I feel) relatively low because I'm a junior software engineer, so I'm torn on whether I should just stick it out and ask for a large raise/promotion in a few months, or put my feelers out.
- KedarMhaswade 12y ago
  Is it the lack of making enough money that bothers you? If you dig deeper, what would you say? If you were to ask yourself "What it is that would keep me motivated?" -- what answer emerges? In his book, "Drive", author Dan Pink argues mostly successfully that it's not the salary or the stock options or other perks that keeps effective individuals motivated. He summarizes that it is the pursuit of that illusive trio -- "Mastery, Autonomy, and Purpose" that keeps people motivated in their work and in their life. In my experience, if remaining in a job or switching jobs cannot be traced to one of these three, then the decision one takes (remain in a job or switching jobs) is not likely to turn out to be a good decision.
  - d357r0y3r 12y ago
    It's not the money that motivates me. I get the most satisfaction from writing good code and pretty/usable UIs, and that is what ultimately drives me. My feeling is that I could get the satisfaction I describe above at many workplaces, but all things equal, I'd like the option that pays more.
  - kghose 12y ago
    I think you meant "elusive". Illusive is a tad pessimistic :)
- mc_hammer 12y ago
  its actually more profitable for the business to offer you a 5% raise every year (i heard thats average given anyway) when inflation is 7% anually, so definitely ask for a raise every 6 months, the worst that can happen is they say no.
S4M 12y ago
The post really makes the OP sounds like a headhunter ("don't worry, the grass is always greener somewhere else..."), in which case I would be very wary of his advice.
- pdpi 12y ago
  "I’m a career coach and can help you master every part of the job search process." Right on the money.
lumberjack 12y ago
If every "five years of experience Java Swing developer" starts looking around for a better job position, isn't that a bit similar to a sector wide union asking for a raise?
- programminggeek 12y ago
  Yep.
- dredmorbius 12y ago
  No. Unions can collectively bargain. Individuals cannot.
- slapresta 12y ago
  You say that as if it were a bad thing...
jarjoura 12y ago
This is why all the big tech companies give substantial raises in RSUs. It's that carrot stick along with the promise of a promotion always just within reach that makes job hopping difficult. At least plan to stay with a company for 2 years. It never looks good to have resumes with pages of jobs.
steven2012 12y ago
The problem with this mentality is that if you move around TOO much, then people won't want to hire you because they will think, rightfully so, that you won't stick around. I routinely reject resumes where the person has 3 or more jobs of 2 years or less on their resume.
- peacemaker 12y ago
  You're missing out on a lot of talented people with that kind of prejudice against short term job terms. You have no idea the background on why people chose to move jobs so simply dismissing them on that one fact seems premature.
  - steven2012 12y ago
    I disagree, and I very much disagree with the assertion that I would be missing out on "a lot" of talented people. "Talented" and "excellent contributor" are not the same thing. I would much rather put in the effort to recruit someone who is very good that will stick around for 2-3+ years and contribute versus a genius that sticks around for 12-18 months. This comes from experience.
    - AlwaysBCoding 12y ago
      Very short sighted mentality. It assumes that people are cogs and the measurable effect of working with someone is the amount of tangible output. Working with extremely talented developers can fundamentally change your perspective about how you should be building your system / approaching a problem that can have huge future benefits. I would rather work with a genius for 12 months than a cog for 3 years.
      - frostmatthew 12y ago
        > I would rather work with a genius for 12 months than a cog for 3 years. That's a false dichotomy. There's plenty of "geniuses" that will stick around for many years and plenty of "cogs" that will be gone in one.
swalsh 12y ago
Can't think of a better thread then this for a question that's been on my mind. I started at a new company last May. In the beginning I was on one team, I had a pretty rough time because the work was so different from my previous company (very boring). I was about ready to move on, but then my wife found she was pregnant, and so I decided to stay anyways because the fact that the work was easy meant I never worked over 40 hours. A few months later my boss moved me to a new team because I had completed literally the next 5 months of planned work in about a month so there was little left to do, and things did a complete 180. On this new team I had a bigger role, but I was able to work on more interesting things. Basically I built a framework that around 8 developers worked full time on. It's now at the point where just one overseas guy can do all the work. Last week we started talking about new projects I could attack at the company. Then on Friday he announced that he's leaving. When I went into his office to congratulate him on the new position, he hinted that he wanted me to join him at the new company in a position that would be kind of a bump for me. I'm inclined to follow him because the current company is a company where engineers are lead by non-engineers, and he's one of the few gems in the place. However i'm not sure if it's a good move (especially with the baby coming in 3 months!). I should also mention that last week he told me they were planning on letting go of all but 2 of the developers that my framework replaced :( I felt safe with him around because I built it, but i'm not sure if they hired an MBA to replace him he would do the same math.
- moron4hire 12y ago
  I have found that, when they have kids or kids on the way, people greatly overestimate risk. If you're s good as you say you are, there is no reason you should ever be long out of a job.
- kyllo 12y ago
  If you have a great boss and he leaves for greener pastures, and gives you the opportunity to follow him, I think it's usually a good idea to accept. Having a boss who you like and who likes and trusts you enough to take you with him to the next company, is priceless. Staying can be risky, as the replacement boss is an unknown factor. In your case, it sounds like a no-brainer.
wbsun 12y ago
This post shows the best of hacker news: comments are often way more better than the original post! I'd agree with one of the comment got downvoted: the post itself is really 'manipulating' and like an ad of nonsense: the only good thing is its title. But the comments here, which are people's real experiences and lessons, are so valuable!
EGreg 12y ago
This should be titled, "Why switching jobs is usually a good idea for overworked, underpaid people who have been working for at least a few years at their current job." But that wouldn't fit on HN.
Eric_WVGG 12y ago
I thought this was gonna be a riff on the Monty Hall problem. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monty_Hall_problem http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monty_Hall_problem
- thisjepisje 12y ago
  You wanted a more fulfilling job, but what you got was a goat. Bummer!
  - Eric_WVGG 12y ago
    #winner http://xkcd.com/1282/ http://xkcd.com/1282/
michaelochurch 12y ago
This is bad advice. The right answer is often to change jobs, but the explanation given here is pretty terrible. If you have a pattern of working significantly less in your first 6 months on a job than later on, then you're making a mistake. That's the time to establish a reputation, figure out what is worth working on, and get a mental map of the organization so that you can actually get things done. It's the hardest time in a job, if you do it right. If you let the "honeymoon period" blind you and slack in your first 6 months, you start getting grunt work thrown at you and that's how you end up overwhelmed and struggling at the 3-year mark. If you do the first 6 months right and gain the credibility, alliances, and reputation that'll put you on a good vector, you (a) have a much higher chance of getting on a fast-track, which means better work rather than more of the same, and (b) can get away with slacking and recharging (as you seek external promotion) if you are passed-over for some reason. Also, for higher-level positions, switching jobs often means changing locations and doing that every year is pretty miserable... especially if you have kids. At some point, you're specialized enough that unless you live in New York or SF-- which are pretty much out once you have kids, unless you're in a hedge fund or a VC firm-- you're going to have to stick with a job for a few years just because there aren't many jobs in your specialty and location. It's worth changing jobs for a genuine promotion, but a high frequency of lateral movement looks really bad. Given also that it can be hard to tell if a new job is a genuine promotion, it's better to stay where you are if you have something good and you're continuing to advance.
sidcool 12y ago
I have been in the same job for the past 9 years. I am happy here, but I feel a need to change. Team is great and friendly, pay is above average, but I am not concerned with it much as it's enough for me and my family to live happily. Another reason I feel is that I have become comfortable here. Things are being gotten-done pretty easily. I don't have to exert myself too much. Team has faith in me. I love the ppl and do as much as possible for them (I am an Engineering Manager). But the urge to change is heavy and to some extent inexplicable to me. I already have 2 offers from other companies. I am wanting to talk to my boss, but fearing a bit. Sigh...
- sktrdie 12y ago
  If you're happy why change? Yes change is almost always good. But it's similar to saying that you should leave your girlfriend simply because you've been with her for too many years. Think of a job as a relationship. If it's good both ways, no need to change.
  - sidcool 12y ago
    That's another way of looking at it, and that's where the confusion is stemming from. I am still undecided.
    - sktrdie 12y ago
      If you're undecided you're probably a bit unhappy in your current position. Therefore change! :)
      - sidcool 12y ago
        Nice revelation :) Thanks. I resigned.
        sktrdie 12y ago
        Wow really? Well I hope you thought it through and didn't just rely on a "stranger's comment" for this decision. In any case, I wish you the best and trust you'll have the skills to find something you really love - everyone should aspire to do what they love.

106 points by alexpotato 12y ago

There is one point that was missed in this post: promotion. Are you more likely to land a promotion in your current job, or are you more likely to find a another job that is also a promotion to a position that you have no experience in?

glesica 12y ago
My guess would be that it doesn't matter. Plenty of managers and senior people are hired from outside of companies these days. And in any case, if you don't make more money, it doesn't even really matter: http://www.forbes.com/sites/cameronkeng/2014/06/22/employees-that-stay-in-companies-longer-than-2-years-get-paid-50-less/ http://www.forbes.com/sites/cameronkeng/2014/06/22/employees...
- zeroonetwothree 12y ago
  The set of candidates that leave to get another job is different from those that stay. They are likely more skilled/motivated, and that's a large part of the job-switching premium. If everyone were to try to switch jobs many people would not be as effective.
pdpi 12y ago
There's a much worse point to miss in this post. Four years down the line, do you want companies looking at your CV and seeing you change jobs every 10-12 months? How good an investment are you as a hire if you're going bail shortly after you're up to speed and a productive member of the team?
- joshvm 12y ago
  The post assumes that you're unhappy in your job. If you like where you're working and the money is enough to sustain you comfortably, why move? Just ask your bosses. If they decline a raise, then ask them what you'd have to do to get paid more. Most places should give you at the very least an annual performance review where you can discuss this sort of thing. I would be wary about someone who kept leaving after 12 months and if interviewing I would ask them to explain why. On the other hand if you have quantifiable things that you have done/built during your tenure there shouldn't necessarily be an issue. It could be a simple reason like your partner's job kept changing location and you moved with them. Not to mention that if you have a family, kids, a mortgage (i.e. a stable life), moving jobs every year isn't in any way practical.

goblin89 12y ago

> The first six months of a new job is taken up primarily by learning new systems, procedures, who to talk to etc. <…> in the beginning, you will probably feel a lot less stressed out. Weird, for me it’s the opposite—the most stressful time is when I don’t know how things work. Battling lacking or missing onboarding processes instead of working on challenges I thought I was hired to solve can be demotivating.

blazespin 12y ago
Yes, the first 6 months are by far the most stressful. You are far more replaceable in the first 6 months than you are after a few years. You will earn more money though. Switching jobs is the fastest way to get a pay raise.

codazzo 12y ago

If somebody ever asks me "what does mansplaining mean?" I'm just going to say, "Well you see, it's quite easy. Just read this blog post" In all seriousness, there was no need for the point in this post to be explained through such exemplary mansplaining.

Agathos 12y ago
We used to call this a Socratic dialogue, but I'll update my vocabulary. Thanks for the notice.
Robin_Message 12y ago
Oh come on. I'm not even sure "mansplaining" is a thing, but even it is, in no way does "mansplaining" == "socratic method". Also, did you even know Alex Potato is a man†? I know two Alex's, one male, and one female. I've never spoken to a potato. Or is it automatically "mansplaining" because the topic is about a specific woman being underpaid/overworked, and any helpful suggestions to that specific women (that reframe the situation and empower her to improve things herself) are automatically sexist? I mean, I'm happy to condemn employment conditions that systemically underpay women, but that won't actually help Sam, whereas this advice might. In conclusion, whilst obviously not everything men write or say that is intended to be supportive of feminism is actually helpful and supportive, it really worries me that if men who are trying to help are shot down for missing the mark, then fewer will try in future, and the only ones left commenting will be the trolls who are looking for such a reaction. † I mean, we could assume they were because they appear to work in software or the like, and play paintball, but we shouldn't do that because it would be sexist, right‡? ‡ Did I just "mansplain" there too? Ooops.
- mparramon 12y ago
  He's a man: http://alexpotato.com/career/about.pl http://alexpotato.com/career/about.pl
  - mcnamara 12y ago
    I don't see anything on that page that indicates Alex has stated a gender identity, so that's an awfully presumptuous thing to say. Maybe you should stop mansplaining?

joelennon 12y ago

If you're not happy in your current role, make your employer aware of that fact. If you believe you are underpaid, say it. If you're overworked, say it. I'm not saying you'll necessarily get results but I think people all too often look for the door when what is making them unhappy can probably be resolved where they are. Of course if you're miserable and need a change that's a different story. But remember that if you're good, losing you is going to hit your employer hard. The cost of replacing good people is so high, any good employer will try to resolve any issues you may have in order to keep you.

ddoolin 12y ago
I'm having this exact issue with my current employer and my past two as well. I was and am being significantly underpaid compared to my coworkers because of my age and experience despite bringing the same level of technical skill and often taking on the larger workload (not speculative; also have 3 dependents). With the exception of the first, I have not been miserable, but without exception, all 3 have been unwilling to go to bat for my wages and would rather lose me, even while professing that that course of action would be a value loss. Maybe I'm delusional about my skill and work ethic but I have found that issues of wages are never easily resolved and it's easier to just increase your wages by switching jobs. One startup of ~20 employees and two large companies.
- dpweb 12y ago
  Salary is a very touchy issue and there's several things to consider. One, that its a negotiation and you have to be very careful in your communications and diligent about protecting your own interests. As an employee you're at a built-in disadvantage. Management knows everyone's salaries, you don't. Salaries are a closely guarded secret and they maintain that informational advantage against you. So, you really have to look at industry averages for your role and decide if you are not being appropriately compd. Now, about mgmt valuing you and not letting you go. First, NEVER threaten to leave. They may preempt that and cut you, or you'll go on a list of troublemakers. Managers have lists of people in their heads they would like to cut if given the opportunity. It's the people that get cut whenever there is a layoff, when teams have to be downsized. It's important to understand mgmt's perspective. They have dozens of people in slots to get things done. No one person is indispensable, especially at the staff level where most programmers are. A slot goes open, they fill it. I've worked with managers with the biggest hearts, good guys, not mean spirited or unappreciative of their employees at all. They will not necessarily blink twice when an employee says they'll walk. I would say, if you have a good case you're under compd, or unhappy. NICELY go to mgmt. If they won't do anything, get an offer from another company. Then you have the choice to just leave, or go back to your company and you have leverage and then its going to essentially be an ultimatum to keep you. But be very nice and polite about it.

LukeB_UK 12y ago

My Dad always said to me that if you ever wake up and realise that you're not enjoying work anymore (or even worse, dreading it) then that's the day you start finding something or somewhere else.

japhyr 12y ago
He's right, burning out in your job and staying in that job makes people age quickly. Life is too short to be stuck in a miserable job, if you can do anything about it.

d357r0y3r 12y ago

In my current role, I like the company, the product, and my co-workers, but I'm almost positive I could be making 20,000 more a year in the same area. My pay is (I feel) relatively low because I'm a junior software engineer, so I'm torn on whether I should just stick it out and ask for a large raise/promotion in a few months, or put my feelers out.

KedarMhaswade 12y ago
Is it the lack of making enough money that bothers you? If you dig deeper, what would you say? If you were to ask yourself "What it is that would keep me motivated?" -- what answer emerges? In his book, "Drive", author Dan Pink argues mostly successfully that it's not the salary or the stock options or other perks that keeps effective individuals motivated. He summarizes that it is the pursuit of that illusive trio -- "Mastery, Autonomy, and Purpose" that keeps people motivated in their work and in their life. In my experience, if remaining in a job or switching jobs cannot be traced to one of these three, then the decision one takes (remain in a job or switching jobs) is not likely to turn out to be a good decision.
- d357r0y3r 12y ago
  It's not the money that motivates me. I get the most satisfaction from writing good code and pretty/usable UIs, and that is what ultimately drives me. My feeling is that I could get the satisfaction I describe above at many workplaces, but all things equal, I'd like the option that pays more.
- kghose 12y ago
  I think you meant "elusive". Illusive is a tad pessimistic :)
mc_hammer 12y ago
its actually more profitable for the business to offer you a 5% raise every year (i heard thats average given anyway) when inflation is 7% anually, so definitely ask for a raise every 6 months, the worst that can happen is they say no.

S4M 12y ago

The post really makes the OP sounds like a headhunter ("don't worry, the grass is always greener somewhere else..."), in which case I would be very wary of his advice.

pdpi 12y ago
"I’m a career coach and can help you master every part of the job search process." Right on the money.

lumberjack 12y ago

If every "five years of experience Java Swing developer" starts looking around for a better job position, isn't that a bit similar to a sector wide union asking for a raise?

programminggeek 12y ago
Yep.
dredmorbius 12y ago
No. Unions can collectively bargain. Individuals cannot.
slapresta 12y ago
You say that as if it were a bad thing...

jarjoura 12y ago

This is why all the big tech companies give substantial raises in RSUs. It's that carrot stick along with the promise of a promotion always just within reach that makes job hopping difficult. At least plan to stay with a company for 2 years. It never looks good to have resumes with pages of jobs.

steven2012 12y ago

The problem with this mentality is that if you move around TOO much, then people won't want to hire you because they will think, rightfully so, that you won't stick around. I routinely reject resumes where the person has 3 or more jobs of 2 years or less on their resume.

peacemaker 12y ago
You're missing out on a lot of talented people with that kind of prejudice against short term job terms. You have no idea the background on why people chose to move jobs so simply dismissing them on that one fact seems premature.
- steven2012 12y ago
  I disagree, and I very much disagree with the assertion that I would be missing out on "a lot" of talented people. "Talented" and "excellent contributor" are not the same thing. I would much rather put in the effort to recruit someone who is very good that will stick around for 2-3+ years and contribute versus a genius that sticks around for 12-18 months. This comes from experience.
  - AlwaysBCoding 12y ago
    Very short sighted mentality. It assumes that people are cogs and the measurable effect of working with someone is the amount of tangible output. Working with extremely talented developers can fundamentally change your perspective about how you should be building your system / approaching a problem that can have huge future benefits. I would rather work with a genius for 12 months than a cog for 3 years.
    - frostmatthew 12y ago
      > I would rather work with a genius for 12 months than a cog for 3 years. That's a false dichotomy. There's plenty of "geniuses" that will stick around for many years and plenty of "cogs" that will be gone in one.

swalsh 12y ago

Can't think of a better thread then this for a question that's been on my mind. I started at a new company last May. In the beginning I was on one team, I had a pretty rough time because the work was so different from my previous company (very boring). I was about ready to move on, but then my wife found she was pregnant, and so I decided to stay anyways because the fact that the work was easy meant I never worked over 40 hours. A few months later my boss moved me to a new team because I had completed literally the next 5 months of planned work in about a month so there was little left to do, and things did a complete 180. On this new team I had a bigger role, but I was able to work on more interesting things. Basically I built a framework that around 8 developers worked full time on. It's now at the point where just one overseas guy can do all the work. Last week we started talking about new projects I could attack at the company. Then on Friday he announced that he's leaving. When I went into his office to congratulate him on the new position, he hinted that he wanted me to join him at the new company in a position that would be kind of a bump for me. I'm inclined to follow him because the current company is a company where engineers are lead by non-engineers, and he's one of the few gems in the place. However i'm not sure if it's a good move (especially with the baby coming in 3 months!). I should also mention that last week he told me they were planning on letting go of all but 2 of the developers that my framework replaced :( I felt safe with him around because I built it, but i'm not sure if they hired an MBA to replace him he would do the same math.

moron4hire 12y ago
I have found that, when they have kids or kids on the way, people greatly overestimate risk. If you're s good as you say you are, there is no reason you should ever be long out of a job.
kyllo 12y ago
If you have a great boss and he leaves for greener pastures, and gives you the opportunity to follow him, I think it's usually a good idea to accept. Having a boss who you like and who likes and trusts you enough to take you with him to the next company, is priceless. Staying can be risky, as the replacement boss is an unknown factor. In your case, it sounds like a no-brainer.

wbsun 12y ago

This post shows the best of hacker news: comments are often way more better than the original post! I'd agree with one of the comment got downvoted: the post itself is really 'manipulating' and like an ad of nonsense: the only good thing is its title. But the comments here, which are people's real experiences and lessons, are so valuable!

EGreg 12y ago

This should be titled, "Why switching jobs is usually a good idea for overworked, underpaid people who have been working for at least a few years at their current job." But that wouldn't fit on HN.

Eric_WVGG 12y ago

I thought this was gonna be a riff on the Monty Hall problem. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monty_Hall_problem http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monty_Hall_problem

thisjepisje 12y ago
You wanted a more fulfilling job, but what you got was a goat. Bummer!
- Eric_WVGG 12y ago
  #winner http://xkcd.com/1282/ http://xkcd.com/1282/

michaelochurch 12y ago

This is bad advice. The right answer is often to change jobs, but the explanation given here is pretty terrible. If you have a pattern of working significantly less in your first 6 months on a job than later on, then you're making a mistake. That's the time to establish a reputation, figure out what is worth working on, and get a mental map of the organization so that you can actually get things done. It's the hardest time in a job, if you do it right. If you let the "honeymoon period" blind you and slack in your first 6 months, you start getting grunt work thrown at you and that's how you end up overwhelmed and struggling at the 3-year mark. If you do the first 6 months right and gain the credibility, alliances, and reputation that'll put you on a good vector, you (a) have a much higher chance of getting on a fast-track, which means better work rather than more of the same, and (b) can get away with slacking and recharging (as you seek external promotion) if you are passed-over for some reason. Also, for higher-level positions, switching jobs often means changing locations and doing that every year is pretty miserable... especially if you have kids. At some point, you're specialized enough that unless you live in New York or SF-- which are pretty much out once you have kids, unless you're in a hedge fund or a VC firm-- you're going to have to stick with a job for a few years just because there aren't many jobs in your specialty and location. It's worth changing jobs for a genuine promotion, but a high frequency of lateral movement looks really bad. Given also that it can be hard to tell if a new job is a genuine promotion, it's better to stay where you are if you have something good and you're continuing to advance.

sidcool 12y ago

I have been in the same job for the past 9 years. I am happy here, but I feel a need to change. Team is great and friendly, pay is above average, but I am not concerned with it much as it's enough for me and my family to live happily. Another reason I feel is that I have become comfortable here. Things are being gotten-done pretty easily. I don't have to exert myself too much. Team has faith in me. I love the ppl and do as much as possible for them (I am an Engineering Manager). But the urge to change is heavy and to some extent inexplicable to me. I already have 2 offers from other companies. I am wanting to talk to my boss, but fearing a bit. Sigh...

sktrdie 12y ago
If you're happy why change? Yes change is almost always good. But it's similar to saying that you should leave your girlfriend simply because you've been with her for too many years. Think of a job as a relationship. If it's good both ways, no need to change.
- sidcool 12y ago
  That's another way of looking at it, and that's where the confusion is stemming from. I am still undecided.
  - sktrdie 12y ago
    If you're undecided you're probably a bit unhappy in your current position. Therefore change! :)
    - sidcool 12y ago
      Nice revelation :) Thanks. I resigned.
      - sktrdie 12y ago
        Wow really? Well I hope you thought it through and didn't just rely on a "stranger's comment" for this decision. In any case, I wish you the best and trust you'll have the skills to find something you really love - everyone should aspire to do what they love.