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>- Subject assessment would happen at much smaller increments and students do not progress until they understand that content block 100%. I don't think this is

>- Subject assessment would happen at much smaller increments and students do not progress until they understand that content block 100%. I don't think this is a good idea at all. It sounds extremely discouraging. This system is lovely for people always at the top of the class, who get to thrive with exactly the knowledge and content they need (assuming they have stored it in long-term memory, rather than storing it just long enough to pass through the immediate barrier), but it's terrible for everyone else. You see this pattern already in compulsory education: 'I don't really get this topic' becomes 'I can't do this topic' becomes 'I can't do this subject' becomes 'Why would I bother?'. It's a lot of work for student and teacher to get back from this point, if they ever manage to. Your system encourages this, and so almost nobody will graduate your system in 8 years; anyone who faces such overwhelming blockades will naturally drop out rather than overcome them. I contend that your idea is worse than the existing system. One of the best ways to get a student to understand content they are completely stuck with is to introduce and apply it as part of a more advanced topic or more practical context, i.e. just move them on from the part they are stuck with and let them continue, coming back to earlier topics where relevant (and as a necessary reminder to the others). The existing system works well in this respect, at least.

nshepperd 12y ago
> I don't think this is a good idea at all. It sounds extremely discouraging. On the contrary, struggling to get everything done by next week and scraping by with a 55% pass mark is extremely discouraging. Being able to take as much time as you like to understand the content until you get it all 100% sounds much more encouraging to me. By way of anecdata, a researcher who had experimented with this approach in australian schools for teaching math came to my faculty and gave a seminar last year. He and his organization found that the students were, as predicted, vastly more encouraged by the mastery learning approach. Actual learning rates were also on average 2x as fast. > You see this pattern already in compulsory education: 'I don't really get this topic' becomes 'I can't do this topic' becomes 'I can't do this subject' becomes 'Why would I bother?'. Only because we are forced to progress without even trying to fix "I don't really get this topic".
- learnstats2 12y ago
  > Actual learning rates were also on average 2x as fast. Compared to a control group, or to the national average? To me, 2x seems extremely low for a group of students receiving special or individualised treatment - but please do link. > Only because we are forced to progress without even trying to fix "I don't really get this topic". Not 'only', I disagree. There are existing systems like this: e.g. certain learn-to-program websites. How many people reach the end point? Anecdotally, everyone I know who has tried code-learning sites experiences getting stuck (sometimes on a broken problem) and they soon drop out - they don't see the point of progressing any further.
  - nshepperd 12y ago
    The program was called "maths pathway". There are some charts on their website; now that I look at them it looks more like 4-5x. And that was compared to the same school before the introduction of the mastery learning program, I believe. > Anecdotally, everyone I know who has tried code-learning sites experiences getting stuck (sometimes on a broken problem) and they soon drop out - they don't see the point of progressing any further. I imagine the situation would be different with an actual human teacher one could ask for help.
- watwut 12y ago
  "Being able to take as much time as you like to understand the content until you get it all 100% sounds much more encouraging to me." Not sure where you live, but with kids here, the amount of time spent studying is directly related to how close the test is - especially when it comes to subject the kid does not care much about. People actually open the book at home when the test/oral exam comes clise. Giving them infinite time only ensures they will put off work indefinitely.

nshepperd 12y ago

> I don't think this is a good idea at all. It sounds extremely discouraging. On the contrary, struggling to get everything done by next week and scraping by with a 55% pass mark is extremely discouraging. Being able to take as much time as you like to understand the content until you get it all 100% sounds much more encouraging to me. By way of anecdata, a researcher who had experimented with this approach in australian schools for teaching math came to my faculty and gave a seminar last year. He and his organization found that the students were, as predicted, vastly more encouraged by the mastery learning approach. Actual learning rates were also on average 2x as fast. > You see this pattern already in compulsory education: 'I don't really get this topic' becomes 'I can't do this topic' becomes 'I can't do this subject' becomes 'Why would I bother?'. Only because we are forced to progress without even trying to fix "I don't really get this topic".

learnstats2 12y ago
> Actual learning rates were also on average 2x as fast. Compared to a control group, or to the national average? To me, 2x seems extremely low for a group of students receiving special or individualised treatment - but please do link. > Only because we are forced to progress without even trying to fix "I don't really get this topic". Not 'only', I disagree. There are existing systems like this: e.g. certain learn-to-program websites. How many people reach the end point? Anecdotally, everyone I know who has tried code-learning sites experiences getting stuck (sometimes on a broken problem) and they soon drop out - they don't see the point of progressing any further.
- nshepperd 12y ago
  The program was called "maths pathway". There are some charts on their website; now that I look at them it looks more like 4-5x. And that was compared to the same school before the introduction of the mastery learning program, I believe. > Anecdotally, everyone I know who has tried code-learning sites experiences getting stuck (sometimes on a broken problem) and they soon drop out - they don't see the point of progressing any further. I imagine the situation would be different with an actual human teacher one could ask for help.
watwut 12y ago
"Being able to take as much time as you like to understand the content until you get it all 100% sounds much more encouraging to me." Not sure where you live, but with kids here, the amount of time spent studying is directly related to how close the test is - especially when it comes to subject the kid does not care much about. People actually open the book at home when the test/oral exam comes clise. Giving them infinite time only ensures they will put off work indefinitely.