7 ms·

Evidence the government will present in the Silk Road trial

35 points by jtreminio 12y ago

nemo 12y ago
This is a pretty poor write up. "The government's argument is that, as the site's alleged administrator, Dread Pirate Roberts, anything that occurred there is his fault." The government's argument is that Ulbricht, as the alleged administrator of the site who was not only fully aware of what was happening, but was designing and tailoring the site to facilitate illegal behavior, courting dealers/criminals to the site, and profiting from the illegal activity he facilitated, so he was engaged in a criminal conspiracy. "Anything that occurred there is his fault" is a ludicrous misrepresentation of what an accusation of criminal conspiracy means. Also with that pile of evidence, esp. finding him logged in as the admin. while arresting him, it's looking completely unlikely that Ulbricht would not be found guilty, esp. with the completely inept/absurd responses by the defense team.
- ubernostrum 12y ago
  Yup. This is like some of the torrent/pirate sites, where the ordinary safe-harbor type of defense would be "Who? Us? We had no idea people were doing that sort of thing!" and gets shot down by "Yeah, you were designing and advertising it specifically to enable that sort of thing, attract people who would do that sort of thing, and talked at length about how your site was entirely for doing that sort of thing."
- NoMoreNicksLeft 12y ago
  > but was designing and tailoring the site to facilitate illegal behavior So if I have booths built at my nightclub that make it easier for dealers to sell smack without others being able to see... It's a crime to build furniture? How is that sane? We're at the point in the drug war where it's such an unspeakable and incredible failure, that the government feels empowered to twist laws or even make them up on the spot to get the rare PR victory (that will of course mean no real world change). It's sick.
  - krapp 12y ago
    No, the crime would be making it easy to deal smack in your nightclub. And then taking a cut of the sales.
    - NoMoreNicksLeft 12y ago
      How is that a crime in the philosophical sense, but more importantly, which statutes actually make this illegal and what is their legal wording?
      - krapp 12y ago
        There's no such thing as a 'crime in the philosophical sense.' If you're asking whether dealing drugs as a business should be illegal, that's irrelevant to the question of whether or not it is. In the practical sense, federal and state statutes clearly consider dealing in certain substances to be a crime. Asking for a citation for that is absurd as you only need consult the source of your outrage with America's drug laws, as referenced in the grandparent comment, for evidence that such laws exist. That Ulbricht did so from a website for bitcoins doesn't make it any less of a crime than if he'd done it from a streetcorner, or a dark booth in a nightclub, regardless of whether or not makes him more sympathetic to the Hacker News crowd. But, if you want to read the actual indictment against Ulbricht, here it is: http://www.justice.gov/usao/nys/pressreleases/February14/RossUlbrichtIndictmentPR/US%20v.%20Ross%20Ulbricht%20Indictment.pdf http://www.justice.gov/usao/nys/pressreleases/February14/Ros...
        NoMoreNicksLeft 12y ago
        But he wasn't dealing. And as far as this one... >There's no such thing as a 'crime in the philosophical sense. If there is no such thing, then nothing is right or wrong, and laws are just obstacles to get around however you can, for as long as you can. That seems a strange principle to propose.
        nemo 12y ago
at-fates-hands 12y ago
This is all you need to know: After federal agents put Ulbricht in handcuffs, they say they had his machine still logged into Silk Road’s backend. He was working on user support tickets when it happened. And this little ditty: Being allegedly signed into Silk Road as Dread Pirate Roberts, signed into the Pidgin instant messenger app as Dread Pirate Roberts, and chatting with Cirrus (there’s that name again) will all be important as the prosecution attempts to solidify the links between Ulbricht and Dread Pirate Roberts. GAME. SET. MATCH - government. Any hacker knows the last thing you want to have happen is having the feds nab you while you're still logged into a session. No encryption, no quick nuke command. This is the worst possible scenario and the Feds caught him with his pants down.
- junto 12y ago
  The only way he's going to get out of this is on a technicality, and that is extremely unlikely. If he does get off they have the attempted murder charges. He's looking pretty finished before the trial even starts. Does this leak taint the jury?
  - at-fates-hands 12y ago
    >>> Does this leak taint the jury? Nope. The attorneys will ask potential jury members during the selection process if they have been following the case in the papers. If the have, it may be grounds for challenging a person to serve on the jury for this specific case if they have a pre-determined view about Ulbricht's guilt or innocence. The process is total chess match since both sides want to get people who are sympathetic to their client or their cause. You should watch the movie "Runaway Jury". In the meantime, here's a quick overview of the jury selection process works: http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-procedure/how-are-potential-jurors-selected.html http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-procedure/how-are-poten...
    - gpm 12y ago
      (Assuming this is a leak from the prosecution, which is not entirely clear) Does this leak violate his right to a fair trial by fabricating grounds to disqualify many potential jurors who would be sympathetic to him? If it doesn't (which seems probable), would a severe enough leak of this kind do the above?

35 points by jtreminio 12y ago

nemo 12y ago

This is a pretty poor write up. "The government's argument is that, as the site's alleged administrator, Dread Pirate Roberts, anything that occurred there is his fault." The government's argument is that Ulbricht, as the alleged administrator of the site who was not only fully aware of what was happening, but was designing and tailoring the site to facilitate illegal behavior, courting dealers/criminals to the site, and profiting from the illegal activity he facilitated, so he was engaged in a criminal conspiracy. "Anything that occurred there is his fault" is a ludicrous misrepresentation of what an accusation of criminal conspiracy means. Also with that pile of evidence, esp. finding him logged in as the admin. while arresting him, it's looking completely unlikely that Ulbricht would not be found guilty, esp. with the completely inept/absurd responses by the defense team.

ubernostrum 12y ago
Yup. This is like some of the torrent/pirate sites, where the ordinary safe-harbor type of defense would be "Who? Us? We had no idea people were doing that sort of thing!" and gets shot down by "Yeah, you were designing and advertising it specifically to enable that sort of thing, attract people who would do that sort of thing, and talked at length about how your site was entirely for doing that sort of thing."
NoMoreNicksLeft 12y ago
> but was designing and tailoring the site to facilitate illegal behavior So if I have booths built at my nightclub that make it easier for dealers to sell smack without others being able to see... It's a crime to build furniture? How is that sane? We're at the point in the drug war where it's such an unspeakable and incredible failure, that the government feels empowered to twist laws or even make them up on the spot to get the rare PR victory (that will of course mean no real world change). It's sick.
- krapp 12y ago
  No, the crime would be making it easy to deal smack in your nightclub. And then taking a cut of the sales.
  - NoMoreNicksLeft 12y ago
    How is that a crime in the philosophical sense, but more importantly, which statutes actually make this illegal and what is their legal wording?
    - krapp 12y ago
      There's no such thing as a 'crime in the philosophical sense.' If you're asking whether dealing drugs as a business should be illegal, that's irrelevant to the question of whether or not it is. In the practical sense, federal and state statutes clearly consider dealing in certain substances to be a crime. Asking for a citation for that is absurd as you only need consult the source of your outrage with America's drug laws, as referenced in the grandparent comment, for evidence that such laws exist. That Ulbricht did so from a website for bitcoins doesn't make it any less of a crime than if he'd done it from a streetcorner, or a dark booth in a nightclub, regardless of whether or not makes him more sympathetic to the Hacker News crowd. But, if you want to read the actual indictment against Ulbricht, here it is: http://www.justice.gov/usao/nys/pressreleases/February14/RossUlbrichtIndictmentPR/US%20v.%20Ross%20Ulbricht%20Indictment.pdf http://www.justice.gov/usao/nys/pressreleases/February14/Ros...
      - NoMoreNicksLeft 12y ago
        But he wasn't dealing. And as far as this one... >There's no such thing as a 'crime in the philosophical sense. If there is no such thing, then nothing is right or wrong, and laws are just obstacles to get around however you can, for as long as you can. That seems a strange principle to propose.
        nemo 12y ago

at-fates-hands 12y ago

This is all you need to know: After federal agents put Ulbricht in handcuffs, they say they had his machine still logged into Silk Road’s backend. He was working on user support tickets when it happened. And this little ditty: Being allegedly signed into Silk Road as Dread Pirate Roberts, signed into the Pidgin instant messenger app as Dread Pirate Roberts, and chatting with Cirrus (there’s that name again) will all be important as the prosecution attempts to solidify the links between Ulbricht and Dread Pirate Roberts. GAME. SET. MATCH - government. Any hacker knows the last thing you want to have happen is having the feds nab you while you're still logged into a session. No encryption, no quick nuke command. This is the worst possible scenario and the Feds caught him with his pants down.

junto 12y ago
The only way he's going to get out of this is on a technicality, and that is extremely unlikely. If he does get off they have the attempted murder charges. He's looking pretty finished before the trial even starts. Does this leak taint the jury?
- at-fates-hands 12y ago
  >>> Does this leak taint the jury? Nope. The attorneys will ask potential jury members during the selection process if they have been following the case in the papers. If the have, it may be grounds for challenging a person to serve on the jury for this specific case if they have a pre-determined view about Ulbricht's guilt or innocence. The process is total chess match since both sides want to get people who are sympathetic to their client or their cause. You should watch the movie "Runaway Jury". In the meantime, here's a quick overview of the jury selection process works: http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-procedure/how-are-potential-jurors-selected.html http://criminal.findlaw.com/criminal-procedure/how-are-poten...
  - gpm 12y ago
    (Assuming this is a leak from the prosecution, which is not entirely clear) Does this leak violate his right to a fair trial by fabricating grounds to disqualify many potential jurors who would be sympathetic to him? If it doesn't (which seems probable), would a severe enough leak of this kind do the above?