4 ms·

Why E-Voting Will Always Be a Bad Idea

14 points by wmat 12y ago

Vadoff 12y ago
Why not just vote from a website with your SSN + registered address? Then they could mail you a letter with verification code to your physical address to verify on the website.
- krapp 12y ago
  >vote from a website - you can't trust whatever computer you're using hasn't been compromised. - you can't trust the network is secure. - you can't trust the site you're sending the vote to is secure. - you can't trust the people running the site. - you can't even trust that the data you sent is the data they receive, assuming all of the above is true. >with your SSN + registered address - it's not exactly difficult to forge someone's identity using those, and then presumably I can cast a vote from anywhere, as anyone. - it is, however, incredibly easy to intimidate and extort someone based on their vote by knowing exactly who they are and where they live, if these are used as qualifiers. - let's ignore the temptation on the part of the government to suddenly discover "glitches" regarding some people's SSN's or registered addresses during an election, forcing them to jump through complex and arcane hoops to 'revalidate' their identity, in an attempt to disenfranchise voters. >Then they could mail you a letter - Paper envelopes, passing through US Postal System offices, being handled by government employees and the NSA, which can be easily opened and tampered with, with which contain a code without which your vote is invalid? How many paper ballots have simply vanished in transit during close American elections already? > with verification code - Who generates this code? Who is responsible for mailing the codes? Where are the codes stored? How are they verified, and by whom? The same entities counting the votes? How easy are they to forge? >to your physical address to verify on the website. goto step 1.
  - cmdrfred 12y ago
    How is any of this less transparent than pulling a level on a black box and hoping it gets counted?
    - krapp 12y ago
      The attack surface becomes much, much bigger. It literally takes everything that's inherently insecure about elections to begin with and adds everything that's insecure about the internet and the post office as well.
      - hga 12y ago
        It also allows coercion and vote buying, as does any remote system where someone can be looking over your shoulder. The "pulling a level on a black box" is so obviously a massive source of fraud I wonder how the people pushing the systems can do so with a straight face. The best system I've used has ballots on hard card stock where you draw lines to indicate votes. 3 columns, 2 sides, it can cover a lot. You then personally put the ballot into an optical reader, but critically the paper ballot remains for recounts etc.
honksillet 12y ago
Yeah, but if you object on any of these grounds you'll be labelled a racist who is trying to suppress the vote!

14 points by wmat 12y ago

Why not just vote from a website with your SSN + registered address? Then they could mail you a letter with verification code to your physical address to verify on the website.

krapp 12y ago
>vote from a website - you can't trust whatever computer you're using hasn't been compromised. - you can't trust the network is secure. - you can't trust the site you're sending the vote to is secure. - you can't trust the people running the site. - you can't even trust that the data you sent is the data they receive, assuming all of the above is true. >with your SSN + registered address - it's not exactly difficult to forge someone's identity using those, and then presumably I can cast a vote from anywhere, as anyone. - it is, however, incredibly easy to intimidate and extort someone based on their vote by knowing exactly who they are and where they live, if these are used as qualifiers. - let's ignore the temptation on the part of the government to suddenly discover "glitches" regarding some people's SSN's or registered addresses during an election, forcing them to jump through complex and arcane hoops to 'revalidate' their identity, in an attempt to disenfranchise voters. >Then they could mail you a letter - Paper envelopes, passing through US Postal System offices, being handled by government employees and the NSA, which can be easily opened and tampered with, with which contain a code without which your vote is invalid? How many paper ballots have simply vanished in transit during close American elections already? > with verification code - Who generates this code? Who is responsible for mailing the codes? Where are the codes stored? How are they verified, and by whom? The same entities counting the votes? How easy are they to forge? >to your physical address to verify on the website. goto step 1.
- cmdrfred 12y ago
  How is any of this less transparent than pulling a level on a black box and hoping it gets counted?
  - krapp 12y ago
    The attack surface becomes much, much bigger. It literally takes everything that's inherently insecure about elections to begin with and adds everything that's insecure about the internet and the post office as well.
    - hga 12y ago
      It also allows coercion and vote buying, as does any remote system where someone can be looking over your shoulder. The "pulling a level on a black box" is so obviously a massive source of fraud I wonder how the people pushing the systems can do so with a straight face. The best system I've used has ballots on hard card stock where you draw lines to indicate votes. 3 columns, 2 sides, it can cover a lot. You then personally put the ballot into an optical reader, but critically the paper ballot remains for recounts etc.

honksillet 12y ago

Yeah, but if you object on any of these grounds you'll be labelled a racist who is trying to suppress the vote!