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There is not much to say which has not already been said. I think it is sad that so much effort is going into projects which do not advance the state of the ar

by mietek 12y ago

There is not much to say which has not already been said. I think it is sad that so much effort is going into projects which do not advance the state of the art. First Go, now Rust — these high-profile projects draw people’s attention away from actually innovative work. As a core contributor, you will retort that Rust has different priorities than, say, Erlang, which is built around the concept of providing N:M processes (green threads) as a language primitive. My answer to that is, why not improve on Erlang, instead of settling for improving on C?

bjz_ 12y ago
Because we actually have to release something. And you can't be all things to all people. The best we can do is try to create a powerful, safe, extensible language, low overhead language with unsafe escape hatches. The hope is that this will allow for future advances in lightweight, task based concurrency in the form of libraries, as opposed to as baked-in language features.
dbaupp 12y ago
It is unfortunate that you think Rust is not improving the state of the art: no other language is low-level and memory safe, with the same flexibility as Rust. Rust is certainly pushing the research envelope further than Go, and, anyway, it seems to me that improving on C is something very desirable given the recent spate of horrible bugs in C libraries, caused by memory safety violations (heartbleed etc).
kibwen 12y ago
It's understandable that you think that I'm a core contributor, but I'm really just an informed community member. I have no vested stake in Rust, and I'm not afraid to criticize the core team when they make baffling decisions (example: the tone-deaf new syntax for fixed-length arrays). And just because Rust has a focus on pragmatism doesn't mean that it's not blazing new territory. Neither Ada nor Cyclone can boast such extensively useful statically-safe references. And figuring out how to do unboxed closures memory-safely in a language without a garbage collector is, as far as I can tell, entirely novel (though you'd have to ask a PL researcher to be certain). I expect aspects of Rust to show up in all future systems programming languages, including future revisions of C++ (as well as brand-new efforts such as M#).
- mietek 12y ago
  We already have a systems programming language with a garbage collector. http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=367177.367199 http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=367177.367199

by mietek 12y ago

bjz_ 12y ago

Because we actually have to release something. And you can't be all things to all people. The best we can do is try to create a powerful, safe, extensible language, low overhead language with unsafe escape hatches. The hope is that this will allow for future advances in lightweight, task based concurrency in the form of libraries, as opposed to as baked-in language features.

dbaupp 12y ago

It is unfortunate that you think Rust is not improving the state of the art: no other language is low-level and memory safe, with the same flexibility as Rust. Rust is certainly pushing the research envelope further than Go, and, anyway, it seems to me that improving on C is something very desirable given the recent spate of horrible bugs in C libraries, caused by memory safety violations (heartbleed etc).

kibwen 12y ago

It's understandable that you think that I'm a core contributor, but I'm really just an informed community member. I have no vested stake in Rust, and I'm not afraid to criticize the core team when they make baffling decisions (example: the tone-deaf new syntax for fixed-length arrays). And just because Rust has a focus on pragmatism doesn't mean that it's not blazing new territory. Neither Ada nor Cyclone can boast such extensively useful statically-safe references. And figuring out how to do unboxed closures memory-safely in a language without a garbage collector is, as far as I can tell, entirely novel (though you'd have to ask a PL researcher to be certain). I expect aspects of Rust to show up in all future systems programming languages, including future revisions of C++ (as well as brand-new efforts such as M#).

mietek 12y ago
We already have a systems programming language with a garbage collector. http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=367177.367199 http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?id=367177.367199